Common folk

[papasmurf]

Don't run away with the idea I'm a tory fan boy,I'm not but to heap all the blame on them is naive.



Much of the countries ills go back to Bliar and people talk as if there were some golden age,for so many the never was and still isn't and people like papasmurf do have a genuine point but they just don't over egg it but dump several poultry farms on it,this country has for decades suffered from short termism and to blame any one party is at best trying to look at the problem through a blindfold.

Quite, the current serious problems that Britain has, have been building up over several decades, all the Tories have done since May 2010 is pour petrol on a fire,

[Sheepy]

How?



To my way of thinking the main problem is that we are in the middle of a sh!t storm of lies and counter lies which means that we don't know what is going on

But on the brightside,we have another one who has decided,being in denial,actually never gets anyone anywhere.

[Borchester]

Well I will agree that the Conservatives aren't solely responsible for historic problems but they have been in power for nearly a decade and during that times things have gotten markedly worse.

How?



To my way of thinking the main problem is that we are in the middle of a sh!t storm of lies and counter lies which means that we don't know what is going on

[Ciaphas]

Don't run away with the idea I'm a tory fan boy,I'm not but to heap all the blame on them is naive.



Much of the countries ills go back to Bliar and people talk as if there were some golden age,for so many the never was and still isn't and people like papasmurf do have a genuine point but they just don't over egg it but dump several poultry farms on it,this country has for decades suffered from short termism and to blame any one party is at best trying to look at the problem through a blindfold.

Well I will agree that the Conservatives aren't solely responsible for historic problems but they have been in power for nearly a decade and during that times things have gotten markedly worse.

[cromwell]

In that case I would argue that the problems you attribute to the country being overcrowded are in fact a consequence of the country being poorely managed.



The country is struggling because the Conservatives have dismantled those systems which both shared the societal load ensuring one component wasn't overwhelmed, and mitigated the risk.



The obvious example being the NHS having to pick up the slack of a failing social healthcare system and overstretched GP services but it goes far deeper than that into more complex root causes.



Take the cutting of funding to Sure Start services which were having a positive impact upon society until the Conservatives cut their funding greately resulting in numerous centres closing. The kids from poorer backgrounds who would have most benefitted from such support suddenly had limited or no support whatsoever putting additional pressure on social services, schools, and potentially the police if the kids ended up getting involved in criminal behaviour. To make matters worse the government then made cuts to policing, education and social services either directly or indirectly.



I don't know how much interaction you have with society but I can assure you that large sections of it are on their knees and there just isn't the resource there to help. The company I work for invest in providing free support services in a range of areas ontop of our regular service provision but we can't hope to meet more than a fraction of the demand shortfall.



I call it societal entropy. If you don't invest into society it quickly starts to fall apart and the Conservatives have massively cut societal investment over the last nine years.

Don't run away with the idea I'm a tory fan boy,I'm not but to heap all the blame on them is naive.



Much of the countries ills go back to Bliar and people talk as if there were some golden age,for so many the never was and still isn't and people like papasmurf do have a genuine point but they just don't over egg it but dump several poultry farms on it,this country has for decades suffered from short termism and to blame any one party is at best trying to look at the problem through a blindfold.

[Ciaphas]

No it's just a straightforward way of saying the country is overcrowded......absolutely nothing to do with anti immigrant or any form of racism.

In that case I would argue that the problems you attribute to the country being overcrowded are in fact a consequence of the country being poorely managed.



The country is struggling because the Conservatives have dismantled those systems which both shared the societal load ensuring one component wasn't overwhelmed, and mitigated the risk.



The obvious example being the NHS having to pick up the slack of a failing social healthcare system and overstretched GP services but it goes far deeper than that into more complex root causes.



Take the cutting of funding to Sure Start services which were having a positive impact upon society until the Conservatives cut their funding greately resulting in numerous centres closing. The kids from poorer backgrounds who would have most benefitted from such support suddenly had limited or no support whatsoever putting additional pressure on social services, schools, and potentially the police if the kids ended up getting involved in criminal behaviour. To make matters worse the government then made cuts to policing, education and social services either directly or indirectly.



I don't know how much interaction you have with society but I can assure you that large sections of it are on their knees and there just isn't the resource there to help. The company I work for invest in providing free support services in a range of areas ontop of our regular service provision but we can't hope to meet more than a fraction of the demand shortfall.



I call it societal entropy. If you don't invest into society it quickly starts to fall apart and the Conservatives have massively cut societal investment over the last nine years.

[cromwell]

Is this just a roundabout way of using immigrants as a scapegoat for the countries problems while letting the government off the hook?

No it's just a straightforward way of saying the country is overcrowded......absolutely nothing to do with anti immigrant or any form of racism.

[Streetwalker]

Remember when Gordon Brown said "British jobs for British workers" - he didn't have a clue about employment rules.

He didn't really have much of a clue about anything to be fair







That the Labour party talk about workers rights is the biggest joke in their undistinguished history when they have failed to protect the  British worker from all the grief that has come with mass immigration from Eastern Europe .

[Barry]

Is this just a roundabout way of using immigrants as a scapegoat for the countries problems while letting the government off the hook?

To be fair, the NHS employs 1.5 million people in the UK. That means every million people need 23,077 NHS staff.

If we have a 1/3 million net immigration in a year, 7,692 more people are required to keep them healthy. I doubt that the numbers of staff in the health service are keeping pace with that.

I do realise that the NHS is heavily staffed by immigrants, from all around the world, and we need those workers as well as our home trained British workers.

Remember when Gordon Brown said "British jobs for British workers" - he didn't have a clue about employment rules.

[Ciaphas]

No idea do you know?  I do know there are schemes as you state in place to try and attract both Nurses Teachers, Police Officers, but not as many as we like are going into such professions, they are not that well paid and long anti social hours.



Plus as quick as you recruit them some don't stay the course, others already in place leave, retire, move on or suffer ill health its a never ending cycle



IMHO to many youngsters are leaving our education system lacking the basic skills to be trained in skilled professions, or willing to be trained



When I state our Infrastructure is creaking , by that I mean we are constantly playing catch up due to the sheer numbers of people in the UK, as fast as we can recruit them there are still not enough Teachers, school places for the youngsters, not enough Police Officers to protect the population, and not enough medical staff or beds for those who need the NHS.



Not enough affordable housing to house the population in the UK now, we are constantly trying to catch up no matter which Government is in power it had been like this for a long time,money alone will not solve the problem it never has.

Is this just a roundabout way of using immigrants as a scapegoat for the countries problems while letting the government off the hook?

[Churchill]

No idea do you know?  I do know there are schemes as you state in place to try and attract both Nurses Teachers, Police Officers, but not as many as we like are going into such professions, they are not that well paid and long anti social hours.



Plus as quick as you recruit them some don't stay the course, others already in place leave, retire, move on or suffer ill health its a never ending cycle



IMHO to many youngsters are leaving our education system lacking the basic skills to be trained in skilled professions, or willing to be trained



When I state our Infrastructure is creaking , by that I mean we are constantly playing catch up due to the sheer numbers of people in the UK, as fast as we can recruit them there are still not enough Teachers, school places for the youngsters, not enough Police Officers to protect the population, and not enough medical staff or beds for those who need the NHS.



Not enough affordable housing to house the population in the UK now, we are constantly trying to catch up no matter which Government is in power it had been like this for a long time,money alone will not solve the problem it never has.

[Ciaphas]

Our whole infrastructure is creaking under the weight of numbers  not just the NHS , Education, Housing , Public Transport, Road and Rail,

How many of those are directly due to a shortage of trained workers apart from education for which there are already incentives to train as a teacher?

[Churchill]

Indeed one cannot argue with facts,

[Sheepy]

Well you know how it is,the media has tunnel vision,they like to spend most of their days putting us all to rights,because they have had their very own agenda bitten on the nose,meanwhile they forget France is in turmoil,Sweden has two explosions a week on average,the German economy is in meltdown and all western economies are overcrowded and underfunded.You all have a nice day,leaving the EU might be a good cover,but the facts are the facts.

[Churchill]

Our whole infrastructure is creaking under the weight of numbers  not just the NHS , Education, Housing , Public Transport, Road and Rail,