A perfect political party

[Thomas]

Your vote is a lost cause anyway. And being compared to Owen Jones is a compliment. Thanks.

What an attitude to take. 78 % of the overall electorate in the uk didnt want to  , or couldnt be arsed voting for labour in the last election.

Dont you want to know why instead of dismissing those who dont blindly follow?

By christ if you are an example of the hard left in labour , your road back to any sort of power is going to be nigh in impossible with an attitude like this.

This forum is full of those who labour should be attracting.......myself from glasgow , deppity from bristol now in the north east , cromwell in manchester , streetwalker in london , sheep in hasting and on and on.

Yet most if not all wont touch labour with a bargepole , so you dismiss us as a lost cause.

[srb7677]

He used to be ok. At least he was until he became Owen Jones. I can't think of a better reason not to vote labour than that spitting, snarling little [expletive deleted]

Your vote is a lost cause anyway. And being compared to Owen Jones is a compliment. Thanks.

[cromwell]

Don't know what to say really,laugh perhaps.

I love the references to democracy and regional mayors being ignored.........voters of Gtr Manchester do you want a mayor/......we voted no
Weli you're having one anyway,democracy in action

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/25/uk-at-risk-of-becoming-failed-state-says-gordon-brown

[DeppityDawg]

I think we are being a little unfair to Steve. I am sure that he believes in democracy. The problem is that the upper echlons of the Labour party, left right, centre and raving loony faction, don't. They see the rank and file as decent enough sorts, but largely uneducated and are somewhat shocked at their outbreaks of insolent disobedience.

He used to be ok. At least he was until he became Owen Jones. I can't think of a better reason not to vote labour than that spitting, snarling little [expletive deleted]

[Borchester]

He doesn't get it Thomas. He's now attempting to villify you for speaking up for democracy because democracy in action produced something he disagrees with. How many left wing posters have we seen on here turn on the tired old perjoratives about "fascists and nationalism" when faced with a counter argument they can't address? He's said it himself. He doesn't want old labour voters back because they are racists and gammons.

I think we are being a little unfair to Steve. I am sure that he believes in democracy. The problem is that the upper echlons of the Labour party, left right, centre and raving loony faction, don't. They see the rank and file as decent enough sorts, but largely uneducated and are somewhat shocked at their outbreaks of insolent disobedience.

[DeppityDawg]

unlike labour the snp arent a cult party who must blindly follow the leader or else.

Im a scot indy supporter first and foremost , have been a vocal critic of nicola sturgeon recently  , and dont blindly follow party dogma unlike you. I have stated many a time , the snp are merely a vehicle to gain scot indy , and in an indy scotland , i wont be supporting them.

Further , a third of scots , many of them snp supporters voted brexit , so what are you talking about?

Lets turn this around , 55% of england , and the majority of labour constituencies , voted brexit , so you are in a minority who are acting against the wishes of your own people.

He doesn't get it Thomas. He's now attempting to villify you for speaking up for democracy because democracy in action produced something he disagrees with. How many left wing posters have we seen on here turn on the tired old perjoratives about "fascists and nationalism" when faced with a counter argument they can't address? He's said it himself. He doesn't want old labour voters back because they are racists and gammons.

[Thomas]

Contemptible? More than a bit unfair Steve,is respecting democracy contemptible.....really?

more to he point cromwell is how stupid steve actually thinks people are. Imagine many scot indy supproters had supported the lieks of srb in trying to overturn englands democracy?

Then once the pattern of overturing demcracy had been established , labour would have similarly done the same to any future scot indy ref?

Labour have form in stitiching up democracy as we know cromwell.......the scot devolution referendum of 1979 , and the 40% rule was all the handiwork of labour scum like robin cook. They then did everything in their power to dampen down voter turnout.

Had labours 40 % rule applied to brexit , then similarly brexit would have been overturned as 17 half million wouldnt have been enough. ( had to be 40 % plus of the TOTAL electorate which would have meant brexiters needing another million votes)

[cromwell]

I should've added Steve,yeah this is a political forum so you are free to promote labour as is anyone,remember though in a forum long ago people like Streetwalker with then unpopular views held their own with good grace and humour in an atmosphere similar to how labour is viewed now.

There was a poster whose signature was "pixels in cyberspace" that descibes places like here nothing to get the hump over and yeah we all do over things me too occasionally but it ain't worth it.

[cromwell]

There are those for whom any political party being perfect would be impossible even in theory because they themselves hold idiotically contradictory positions.

Eg defending Scottish independence as a matter for Scots, yet defending Brexit as a matter for the British, even though the Scots rejected it massively, whilst all the while still claiming to be Scottish nationalists. Such Scottish nationalist Brexit supporters seem happy enough to piggy back off the votes of the English when the Scots don't vote their way on something.

Quite contemptible.

Contemptible? More than a bit unfair Steve,is respecting democracy contemptible.....really?

We are all guilty of holding others in contempt,calling people gammons? which you later regretted.
Thomas is a Glasgow bruiser, and so calls a spade an effing shovel the funny thing is he does get pulled from time to time but people don't see that and imagine preferential treatment same with others too.

[Thomas]

Well my stance is the union,however you can't deny people the right to leave if the majority choose that.

It's a toss up who goes first NI or Scotland,the figures ain't good for the union continuing......as Borky says that's life.
We were told if we left the eu the sky would fall in,now it's the break up of the union,people think things continue forever they don't,the USSR doesn't exist anymore,the US is losing its grip on worlds no1 super power to be replaced by China.

Here labour is going down,people think the two party system of Con/Lab is set in stone that isn't true it can change and doesn't need to be replaced by  extremism though I don't expect it to happen overnight.

SRB is on here bleating indirectly to me cromwell , but the fact of the matter is as you say , the world moves on and changes wether people like it or not , and labour have been their own worst enemies time and again.

You can't say they havent been given  a chance.

They were in charge of glasgow for 80 years , and left it a sink hole of labour party corruption , while they took glasgow from the second city of empire to one of the worst cities in the western world all under their watch.

When it came to public view over such things as scot indy and brexit , they did everything in their power to disrespect the very people they were supposed to serve , until even the northern english kicked them out and replaced them.

Now steve is on here all resentfull with his big petted lip trying to spin somehting about duplicity and piggy backing. 

There is somethng inherently rotten at the core of the modern labour party , and dreamers like srb merely enable thier continued fall from grace.

I have been a scottish indy supporter since i first became politically aware in the 1980`s , thats 30 years prior to the 2016 brexit vote. I didint wander around scotland forcing people to vote remain to feck up the union , similarly i didnt wander around england forcing people to vote leave.

Thats how the cookie crumbeld , and labours woes long predate the brexit or scotland indy referendum in 2014 and 2016 respectively. These two events were merely the final nails in labours coffin , rather than the begining of the end , but steve wouldnt understand that.

[Thomas]

is typical  two faced behaviour for SNP types who support Brexit against the wishes of their own party and people.

unlike labour the snp arent a cult party who must blindly follow the leader or else.

Im a scot indy supporter first and foremost , have been a vocal critic of nicola sturgeon recently  , and dont blindly follow party dogma unlike you. I have stated many a time , the snp are merely a vehicle to gain scot indy , and in an indy scotland , i wont be supporting them.

Further , a third of scots , many of them snp supporters voted brexit , so what are you talking about?

Lets turn this around , 55% of england , and the majority of labour constituencies , voted brexit , so you are in a minority who are acting against the wishes of your own people.

[Thomas]

Neither is my central point. That cravenly piggy backing off English voters when it suits whilst claiming it is a matter for Scots alone when it doesn't, is typical  two faced behaviour for SNP types who support Brexit against the wishes of their own party and people.

I dont support brexit. I support democracy , something you clearly are unable to comprehend.

You carry on bleating though.

[cromwell]

Well my stance is the union,however you can't deny people the right to leave if the majority choose that.

It's a toss up who goes first NI or Scotland,the figures ain't good for the union continuing......as Borky says that's life.
We were told if we left the eu the sky would fall in,now it's the break up of the union,people think things continue forever they don't,the USSR doesn't exist anymore,the US is losing its grip on worlds no1 super power to be replaced by China.

Here labour is going down,people think the two party system of Con/Lab is set in stone that isn't true it can change and doesn't need to be replaced by  extremism though I don't expect it to happen overnight.

[DeppityDawg]

pretty much deppity.

What SRB doesn't get is that if his party actually represented it's core support instead of treating everyone who disagrees with its divisive politics as racists, homophobes and fascists, it would be in government right now. There will never be a "perfect" party. But one that doesn't treat what should be it's core support with contempt would be a good starting point for the Labour party

[srb7677]

A typical anal post. Scotland is a country. "Britain" (even though many of us mistakenly call it our country) is a Union.
It's not hard to figure out.

Neither is my central point. That cravenly piggy backing off English voters when it suits whilst claiming it is a matter for Scots alone when it doesn't, is typical  two faced behaviour for SNP types who support Brexit against the wishes of their own party and people.

There will never and can never be a perfect party for such unprincipled and duplicitous types.