Natural Selection or Vaccine?

[Nalaar]

Oh Naalar don't fall out. I am not projecting my beliefs any more than you are yours on me. I am sorry that you find my beliefs so abhorrent, of course we need a cure for other diseases but the question was whether we should vaccinate or use natural selection. I am for medication if at all possible and from your post so are you. At least we can claim a small spot of common ground.

I am sorry if you found me rude but confess I retaliated in the same way from your post. Forgive me please.

It's not about finding anything "Rude" or "abhorrent" etc. It's about completing the line of thought.

You're question about 'Cure or Natural Selection' puts your god front and centre of the post (for reasons that are unnecessary  to the question), but if you want to do that you're going to be expected to follow through on the implications created by the thought 'god decides when we need a cure'. 

[Barry]

I was sent a long discourse by a Christian friend, written by Tony Pearce of a Ministry called "Light for the Last Days".
It weighed up the pros and cons of vaccination from a moral, spiritual and ethical point of view. It also spoke of events in scripture, particularly Revelation, which some evangelicals had drawn attention to. If anyone is interested I could attach the Word doc to a post or email it. It's too long to copy and paste.
My Christian friend asked for my thoughts and whether I would take the vaccine.
I replied as follows:
(Names redacted)
Thanks for sending me this document on WhatsApp. I've read every word.
Firstly, anything after Revelation 4 has no mention of the church as it appears the rapture has taken place, so I discount the argument from Rev. 9

As you may remember, my wife was a State Registered Nurse and she will take the vaccine when it comes round.

I was a bit sceptical but spoke to my son ++++++, who is now Doctor ++++++, having a D.Phil. in Medicinal Chemistry.
I asked him if he was in my position whether he would take the vaccination.
Unequivocally, his answer was "Yes".

At present I'm not 100% convinced but when my turn comes around I will be having the vaccine. I doubt this will be much before April as I'm (age) and have only minor health conditions. I will monitor the situation, as I have been doing from the very beginning.

I can't advise you about taking the vaccine, of course, but that is what I have decided.

God bless,
Barry

[johnofgwent]

I confess that that is something I don't understand at all. I forget how many have now tested positive and survived. The last I heard was that immunity would last 5 months (did you have 2 different strains) but surely there must come a time where vaccination could be subject to finding antibodies. Perhaps that's why they are injecting the elderly etc first.

There is a pretty massive difference between the vaccines.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_biosynthesis


The above described in regrettably scientific language how your DNA unwinds, how nucleotides nuclear material components) are assembled by RNA Polymerase to messenger RNA.


This is exported out of the cell nucleus to the cytoplasm where it gravitates towards the rough endoplasmic reticulum where ribosomes read the mRNA, sucking in amino acids which it assembles into a protein, which folds into the protein.


The Pfizer vaccine is an mRNA strand that jumps into the cell, and assembles the protein


The others are more traditional bits and pieces of virus coat that your immune system reads and programs production of antibodies against, in ways genus homo has done for millions of years, or maybe only 10,026 ...

[T00ts]

Preferred those medical advances not to be made?

Toots with respect , i simply asked for an opinion on the article i posted , and so far , i have received a sermon as nalaar says and in this latest post been insulted as some sort of medical science luddite.

I fully support medical science and advancement , and as for the covid vaccine , have stated many time i and my family will take it when given.

We are miles apart.

Gosh!

[Thomas]

I don't know how to answer you Thomas. I am not advocating anything. I am simply showing how I see the world and with similar respect we are miles apart. Throughout history mistakes have been made. Throughout history we have eradicated illnesses. Not all as Nalaar was quick to point out, but perhaps you would have preferred those medical advances had not been made. I'm sorry if this cannot satisfy you.

Preferred those medical advances not to be made?

Toots with respect , i simply asked for an opinion on the article i posted , and so far , i have received a sermon as nalaar says and in this latest post been insulted as some sort of medical science luddite.

I fully support medical science and advancement , and as for the covid vaccine , have stated many time i and my family will take it when given.

We are miles apart.

[johnofgwent]

I confess that that is something I don't understand at all. I forget how many have now tested positive and survived. The last I heard was that immunity would last 5 months (did you have 2 different strains) but surely there must come a time where vaccination could be subject to finding antibodies. Perhaps that's why they are injecting the elderly etc first.

I'm a student of the science and my pal who has retired to Madeira is a full on virologist and we don't fully get it so you're in good company


As I caught it from our company driver given "pneumonia" by the trade delegation political spies and company owning Playboys he ferried around bits of the UK in Nov 2019, and then caught it in Dec 2020 from the wife infected by the asylum seekers she was rerouted to deal with by the MOJ after the last batch of illegals infected half the office ...




Yes, my experience of the two suggests the virus had mutated to increase its efficacy at invading over the intervening 12 months.


I've been left much more impacted by the second infection too.


The BBC suggest immunity could last 5 months.


My virologist pal says three, less if I'm unlucky. I'm going with his assessment.

[T00ts]

As a (two times) COVID SURVIVOR with grave misgivings at the Pfizer vaccine's likely effect on me, right now natural selection seems the better choice for me ...

I confess that that is something I don't understand at all. I forget how many have now tested positive and survived. The last I heard was that immunity would last 5 months (did you have 2 different strains) but surely there must come a time where vaccination could be subject to finding antibodies. Perhaps that's why they are injecting the elderly etc first.

[johnofgwent]

Oh Naalar don't fall out. I am not projecting my beliefs any more than you are yours on me. I am sorry that you find my beliefs so abhorrent, of course we need a cure for other diseases but the question was whether we should vaccinate or use natural selection. I am for medication if at all possible and from your post so are you. At least we can claim a small spot of common ground.

I am sorry if you found me rude but confess I retaliated in the same way from your post. Forgive me please.

As a (two times) COVID SURVIVOR with grave misgivings at the Pfizer vaccine's likely effect on me, right now natural selection seems the better choice for me ...

[T00ts]

Well I suppose it had to happen eventually


It grinds my teeth to say it but I agree with you.


And the list of diseases God has decided to withold the revelation of a cure to is s pretty long one.

I don't see it that way at all. It is not that He witholds, perhaps we are not ready yet or not far enough along the route to finding it. Perhaps my wording was amiss it wasn't intended to appear as some sort of retribution.

JOG you have been a trainer I think - if you give a student something far ahead of what they are ready for then it could be wasted or not recognised until the training has progressed and techniques mastered that naturally lead to the next stage.  I see our time here on earth as a time to learn, we are all students, we just need to be patient for the right progress before these discoveries are made. Surely each scientist draws on work that has gone before I am just suggesting that this part is not yet reached.

[T00ts]

If I may appeal to your humility to not project your beliefs onto others.

As for the rest the train of thought is simple, you think that god decided we needed a cure for Covid, and blessed us with a cure. By the same reasoning your god has decided with don't need a cure for childhood leukaemia, and so we have not been blessed with a cure. It's up to you (and indeed any individual) to decide why you think this is acceptable, I certainly do not.

Oh Naalar don't fall out. I am not projecting my beliefs any more than you are yours on me. I am sorry that you find my beliefs so abhorrent, of course we need a cure for other diseases but the question was whether we should vaccinate or use natural selection. I am for medication if at all possible and from your post so are you. At least we can claim a small spot of common ground.

I am sorry if you found me rude but confess I retaliated in the same way from your post. Forgive me please.

[johnofgwent]

If I may appeal to your humility to not project your beliefs onto others.

As for the rest the train of thought is simple, you think that god decided we needed a cure for Covid, and blessed us with a cure. By the same reasoning your god has decided with don't need a cure for childhood leukaemia, and so we have not been blessed with a cure. It's up to you (and indeed any individual) to decide why you think this is acceptable, I certainly do not.

Well I suppose it had to happen eventually


It grinds my teeth to say it but I agree with you.


And the list of diseases God has decided to withold the revelation of a cure to is s pretty long one.

[T00ts]

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

I don't know how to answer you Thomas. I am not advocating anything. I am simply showing how I see the world and with similar respect we are miles apart. Throughout history mistakes have been made. Throughout history we have eradicated illnesses. Not all as Nalaar was quick to point out, but perhaps you would have preferred those medical advances had not been made. I'm sorry if this cannot satisfy you.

[Nalaar]

He is not just my God He is yours too

If I may appeal to your humility to not project your beliefs onto others.

As for the rest the train of thought is simple, you think that god decided we needed a cure for Covid, and blessed us with a cure. By the same reasoning your god has decided with don't need a cure for childhood leukaemia, and so we have not been blessed with a cure. It's up to you (and indeed any individual) to decide why you think this is acceptable, I certainly do not.

[Thomas]

23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine: officials

Twenty-three people died in Norway within days of receiving their first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with 13 of those deaths — all nursing home patients — apparently related to the side effects of the shots, health officials said.

Common reactions to the vaccine, including fever and nausea, "may have contributed to a fatal outcome in some frail patients," Sigurd Hortemo, chief physician at the Norwegian Medicines Agency, said in a Friday statement.

All 13 were nursing home patients and at least 80 years old. While officials aren't expressing serious concern, they are adjusting their guidance on who should receive the vaccine.

The news comes just over a week after officials reported the deaths of just two nursing home residents after they received the Pfizer jab.

https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/

[Thomas]

Remember  , whilst talking of moral principles this is the company that is dishing out this vaccine.

Pfizer to pay £50m after deaths of Nigerian children in drug trial experiment
Out of court settlement in the case that inspired 'The Constant Gardener'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/pfizer-pay-163-50m-after-deaths-nigerian-children-drug-trial-experiment-1663402.html

Trust in big pharm we are told. This is gods gift to mankind.

I would say with respect toots it would take a massive amount of blind faith to allow mankind to be dependent more and more on companies like pfizer wouldnt you?