An interesting piece

[johnofgwent]

i keep saying john , you can go to a corner of the interent and get lefty propaganda , right wing propaganda , and anything in between . The freedom of choise to view what you so choose is there.

We dont have any such choice with organisations like the bbc , which we are forced to pay for unlike the interwebby.

Politicians simply dont like the fact they can't control the message on the interwebby , and they are doing everything they can to rectify this.,

Yes, while for the woke left, the priority is to demonetize any and all they see as not on message with them

[DeppityDawg]

Hmmm I think DD posted someting a bit back about a discussion in a pub and him thinking the web wasn't that great an innovation (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) and in many respects it isn't.

I think what I said was that the discussion was about the greatest influences of modern times. The consensus was that the two most life (history even) changing inventions of the 20th century were the Internet and the contraceptive pill

I don't think I (or anyone in the pub discussion either) said they were "great", just that they'd had the biggest impact, for better or worse

Nuclear weapons were in there too - thats how the discussion started, over an argument about NBC kit

[Thomas]

But then if I'd have been in the Manchester arena on the day yeah I'd have felt fear.

Or irish terrorist blowing up pubs in the 70`s , or british terrorists blowing up glasgow pubs in the same era and so on.

Again though cromwell , as we know , extremsim and terrorism long predate the internet.

[cromwell]

Your right cromwell , im not getting what you are saying.

I thought when your starte the OP and said this was an "interesting piece" you were insinuating you were in agreement with it , and i proceeded to explain why i thought it was guff.

Of course there is good and bad , and of course the internet means content finds an audience quicker.

When they first started printing books i nthe 16th century , that too enabled people to find good and bad content quicker. So what cromwell?

Its a platform for good and bad , nothing more , the propensity for good and evil , for extreme and mild rests with each individual , not the platform of the internet.

Dont agree cromwell. What are you saying , if the internet hadnt been invented , we would be stuck in some halcyon rose tinted 1950 - 1970 era forevermore?

The world changes constantly  , and always has done for better or worse , and that will always happen with or without the internet.

As i said cromwell , we seem to have a group of politicians and elite and their cronies on the old media bleating about controlling the message. You can bet your arse if politicians totally controlled the internet and social media we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

If extremsim is something you fear , you dont defeat it by ignoring it or refusing to give it a platform.

You get it out into the open and debate it , and the internet is a great tool for that.

This reminds me of back in the early days of the old forum , and certain folk demanding the bnp were banned , and the odious nick griffin refused a platform on tv and media , while others didnt agree withhim , but defended his right to say what he wanted to.

Im in that camp , and always have been.

Me too Thomas,and fear extremism? probably the wrong word to describe how I feel about it.

But then if I'd have been in the Manchester arena on the day yeah I'd have felt fear.

[Thomas]

You're not getting what I'm saying,I'd read this and remembered DD's post,I haven't said the webs all bad (or good) but the mad bad stuff sure as hell finds a wide audience faster than ever.

Your right cromwell , im not getting what you are saying.

I thought when your starte the OP and said this was an "interesting piece" you were insinuating you were in agreement with it , and i proceeded to explain why i thought it was guff.

Of course there is good and bad , and of course the internet means content finds an audience quicker.

When they first started printing books i nthe 16th century , that too enabled people to find good and bad content quicker. So what cromwell?

Its a platform for good and bad , nothing more , the propensity for good and evil , for extreme and mild rests with each individual , not the platform of the internet.

Dont agree cromwell. What are you saying , if the internet hadnt been invented , we would be stuck in some halcyon rose tinted 1950 - 1970 era forevermore?

The world changes constantly  , and always has done for better or worse , and that will always happen with or without the internet.

As i said cromwell , we seem to have a group of politicians and elite and their cronies on the old media bleating about controlling the message. You can bet your arse if politicians totally controlled the internet and social media we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

If extremsim is something you fear , you dont defeat it by ignoring it or refusing to give it a platform.

You get it out into the open and debate it , and the internet is a great tool for that.

This reminds me of back in the early days of the old forum , and certain folk demanding the bnp were banned , and the odious nick griffin refused a platform on tv and media , while others didnt agree withhim , but defended his right to say what he wanted to.

Im in that camp , and always have been.

[cromwell]

well sorry cromwell , im not sure what you are saying? Do you agree with the senitment of the article or not , and if you do , what about addressing what i am saying?

The article is a slight on you yourself , he is basically saying until nigel farage came along and the internet to brainwash you , (obviously as a pleb you can't think for yourself) you were happy and contented as a pro european.

Is that right?

I mean bringin  up Qanon? Come on tae feck cromwell , some nutty american orgainstion (not that the yanks need any encrouragement) is all the fault of the nasty interwebby and facebook ?

Whose fault was the rise of the nazis in 1930`s germany?

Men are always looking for someone to blame for something , my views on scottish indepdencne for example awasnt forumlated by nicola strugeon or the internet , they were formed by my upbringing and environment  i grew up in ,and my belief in myself as a scot.

I would bet your belief in yourself as a briton was what drove you to vote out of the eu ? You see your country as britain , not the EU , and voted accordingly?

You're not getting what I'm saying,I'd read this and remembered DD's post,I haven't said the webs all bad (or good) but the mad bad stuff sure as hell finds a wide audience faster than ever.

[Thomas]

He does that a lot, .

You are one to talk.

You  , the person who claimed everyone in the uk is racist based on nothing more than wishfull thinking and brexit , you the person who runs around calling everyone tories and right wingers simply becuase they dont agree with your politics?

Are you now friends with cromwell today and needing him to hold you r hand steve?

A paranoid delusionist telling others that their imagination is running wild lmfao!

[srb7677]

That's your prerogative Thomas....
You are letting your imagination run wild...

He does that a lot, .

[Thomas]

The internet is a protocol designed to withstand nuclear war. As such it worries professional politicians.


When little Owen the lefty T@@@ launched a crowdfunding appeal for a million quid to launch his new YouTube channel with professional writers getting union rates, a hundred existing and former bloggers and vloggers who all started on a shoestring and most still are just sat back and laughed.


The problem - as I think you pointed out - is that the internet is a great leveller. A minority party starved of BBC and ITV coverage by those who feel only the elite should be heard can get a message out to millions for peanuts. And the great advantage of the Net is a minority party starved of BBC and ITV coverage can get a message out for peanuts


And they have. Across the whole political spectrum.

i keep saying john , you can go to a corner of the interent and get lefty propaganda , right wing propaganda , and anything in between . The freedom of choise to view what you so choose is there.

We dont have any such choice with organisations like the bbc , which we are forced to pay for unlike the interwebby.

Politicians simply dont like the fact they can't control the message on the interwebby , and they are doing everything they can to rectify this.,

[Thomas]

That's your prerogative Thomas though I didn't say it was the webs fault did I?
You are letting your imagination run wild,me seeing demons every where....ermm no same as I've not been hiding under my bed for the duration of this pandemic.
You see this differently,that's fine.

well sorry cromwell , im not sure what you are saying? Do you agree with the senitment of the article or not , and if you do , what about addressing what i am saying?

The article is a slight on you yourself , he is basically saying until nigel farage came along and the internet to brainwash you , (obviously as a pleb you cant think for yourself) you were happy and contented as a pro european.

Is that right?

I mean bringin  up Qanon? Come on tae feck cromwell , some nutty american orgainstion (not that the yanks need any encrouragement) is all the fault of the nasty interwebby and facebook ?

Whose fault was the rise of the nazis in 1930`s germany?

Men are always looking for someone to blame for something , my views on scottish indepdencne for example awasnt forumlated by nicola strugeon or the internet , they were formed by my upbringing and environment  i grew up in ,and my belief in myself as a scot.

I would bet your belief in yourself as a briton was what drove you to vote out of the eu ? You see your country as britain , not the EU , and voted accordingly?

[johnofgwent]

....and this is the internets fault how?

The internet is a protocol designed to withstand nuclear war. As such it worries professional politicians.


When little Owen the lefty T@@@ launched a crowdfunding appeal for a million quid to launch his new YouTube channel with professional writers getting union rates, a hundred existing and former bloggers and vloggers who all started on a shoestring and most still are just sat back and laughed.


The problem - as I think you pointed out - is that the internet is a great leveller. A minority party starved of BBC and ITV coverage by those who feel only the elite should be heard can get a message out to millions for peanuts. And the great advantage of the Net is a minority party starved of BBC and ITV coverage can get a message out for peanuts


And they have. Across the whole political spectrum.

[johnofgwent]

Doesn't detract from the fact that there's some serious crap out there,like qanon and arseholes going in to hospitals filming saying covid doesn't exist.

True, but for every one of those there's a piece of lefty trash posting lefty propaganda that twatter and arsebook WONT delete

[cromwell]

....and this is the internets fault how?

To be honest cromwell , you are seeing demons in the background everywhere , and the fact of the matter is  , the world has never been as safe or as quiet in terms of warfare/ extremism etc  as it has been in recent decades of the interwebby.

Look howfast extremism spread in the early decades of the twentieth century long before anyone had heard of a computer never mind facebook? Rebellion in ireland , two world wars , spread of fascism and communism etc.

Human beings talk to each other cromwell , and its merely the platform that changes over time. Its not the internets fault anymore than you can blame the rise of communism in russia or fascism in spain or italy on  a book.

Human being spread good and bad ideas , hate etc , and they do it using any means they can.

Whats the good professor suggestng? Take away social media , put it under the control of thsoe lovely honest holier than thou politicians and this will stop brexit , put us all back in our box , and stop thomas the nasty nationalist being brainwashed over scot indy?

To be honest cromwell , i find it all patronising drivel .

That's your prerogative Thomas though I didn't say it was the webs fault did I?
You are letting your imagination run wild,me seeing demons every where....ermm no same as I've not been hiding under my bed for the duration of this pandemic.
You see this differently,that's fine.

[Thomas]

At first the web represented a threat to the established media. It democratised the exchange of information so that it was no longer exclusively in the pockets of the wealthy and/or Establishmentarian elites. Anyone with access to the internet could go online and build a following or just contribute to the diverse range of opinions. The established media could no longer control the narrative, and this became quite apparent in the 2017 election especially.

But the established media have hit back, developing their own powerful online presence, aided and abetted by algorithms that prioritise their content. These algorithms are an attempt to diminish the prevalence  of the dubious products of enemy state-sponsored disinformation, fake news, and propaganda. But by favouring the established media in this way they also diminish truly independent voices. The democratisation of information has thus been rolled back somewhat, without eliminating the problem of conspiracy theorist fake information.

Although I myself contribute to it, I am less positive about the virtues of social media than I was.

You cant have it both ways though steve.

You have complained long and loudly all the time i have known you online of the " tory controlled media" and blaming them for the reason labour dont get elected( which of course falls on its arse when you consider the snp in scotland winning against the same media).

Now we have the internet and social media for sharing views , labour and their supporters have a platform they claim they were long denied by the traditional media , to spout their views and win hearts and minds.

We are essentially arguing about "control " here.

Political groups , their supporters , and people like the good remainer professor simply dont like the fact other people might just have a different point of view to them on various issues , so they want to gain control of the internet and until they do , blame the internet for "brainwashing " people. I had some absolute crakcpot on this very forum call me a russian bot for supproting scottish indy till he was put in his place by other forum members.

Its a load of guff to be honest , with a tiny measure of truth.

The snp were never meant to get into power , trump as never meant to get elected ,and brexit was never ment to happen , and since all these things have come about , there has been a never ending nashing of teeth and bleating about people being brainwashed.

It never once occurs the old tired way of doing things , and the old tired political parties , the EU , the union etc etc are simply unpalatable and folk are now looking for something different.

[Thomas]

Well the prof being a remainer may well make him think that way and yeah of course lies,extremism and propaganda have been around since man got together,it is the speed and breadth though that such things spread that is the problem.

....and this is the internets fault how?

To be honest cromwell , you are seeing demons in the background everywhere , and the fact of the matter is  , the world has never been as safe or as quiet in terms of warfare/ extremism etc  as it has been in recent decades of the interwebby.

Look howfast extremism spread in the early decades of the twentieth century long before anyone had heard of a computer never mind facebook? Rebellion in ireland , two world wars , spread of fascism and communism etc.

Human beings talk to each other cromwell , and its merely the platform that changes over time. Its not the internets fault anymore than you can blame the rise of communism in russia or fascism in spain or italy on  a book.

Human being spread good and bad ideas , hate etc , and they do it using any means they can.

Whats the good professor suggestng? Take away social media , put it under the control of thsoe lovely honest holier than thou politicians and this will stop brexit , put us all back in our box , and stop thomas the nasty nationalist being brainwashed over scot indy?

To be honest cromwell , i find it all patronising drivel .