latest snowflake outrage

[Good old]

LOL is this more of your jam tomorrow arguments  , where you say the trick is labour getting through the door so they can offer all the things they didnt offer when they had thriteen years in power over three elections last time?

Honestly good old , even your arguments and strategy is stuck in a rut never changing.

Are you sure it's not the door that bothers you. ?As against how to open it and enter. In a democracy that's all you need to do.  They will not need to offer all things, just some things, And the chance of  a better outlook to being stuck with the Tories for more time than they deserve.

[Thomas]

Trust in labour , everything will be fine once we blindly vote for them.

Mind the last time that happened?

Bonfire of civil liberties , tuition fees , iraq war etc etc.

These people like good old and their labour cronies honestly think voters are feckin daft.

[Thomas]

This petition calls on Keir Starmer to announce the Labour Party's support for proportional representation in general elections. Proportional representation means that all votes are reflected equally in the distribution of seats in parliament.

and the relevant passage about how since elected as ever....

However, since his election Starmer seems to have dropped the issue from his agenda. In fact, Labour's recent consultation on constitutional change didn't even address the relationship between votes and seats in general elections, focusing instead on devolution. As a resident of a rural safe seat where my vote makes no difference to the outcome, I feel frustrated by Labour's continued failure to directly address our broken electoral system.

https://www.change.org/p/keir-starmer-it-s-time-to-support-proportional-representation?redirect=false


been hearing the same arguemnt from labour supporters about electoral reform all my life , and every time without fail , the party leadership wquietly drop it or kick it into the long grass.

Jam tomorrow good old says if only we put our trust in labour.

[Thomas]

The trick is to get through the door. Corbyn,s history made it easy make him appear toxic , to the degree he would never have got through the door. Whether he was or was not toxic doesn't matter he was worked over soundly by our independent media.    As you say Starmer might not be the leader for ever. But one things for sure . The Tories . Will only be eased out by someone that is crowing extremes and little else. Once the door is open the party has a chance . But don't expect the establishment to roll over just because someone shouts louder than the people that opened the door.

LOL is this more of your jam tomorrow arguments  , where you say the trick is labour getting through the door so they can offer all the things they didnt offer when they had thriteen years in power over three elections last time?

Honestly good old , even your arguments and strategy is stuck in a rut never changing.

[Sampanviking]

Speaking as a Englishman (Middle Class) living in Wales, I feel a paternal need to offer advice and guidance to my adopted Welsh Brothers and Sisters in regard to their many failing with respect to their relatively few ways. You would imagine that they would be both grateful and gracious in equal measure for my taking the time and energy to help them.
Can you believe it however; that in fact......

[Thomas]

Times were different back then. We had a mass industrial society with mass unions and a massive industrial and entirely unrepresented working class. It still took nearly five decades before there was a majority Labour government. The struggling millions cannot wait that long now. We are more likely to get PR much sooner than that if and when we get a hung parliament. Which for that reason is probably a more desirable and likely outcome than an outright Labour majority.

After all, if Blair had not gotten his massive majority in 1997 and was dependent upon Lib Dem support, we'd probably have had PR 20 years ago.

Excuses excuses , i would say it was much harder for hardie and the formation of labour back then than it is for an aspiring party now. There have been struggling millions in every century of history , why is it any more urgent now than at any point before?

You will never ever get PR under a modern labour or conservative government , and to even speak about it is to show the utter delusional world you inhabit.

[Good old]

Were it not for FPTP some of us would already be doing that. But the left stands no chance under FPTP in the face of a toxic media. No new party stands a chance until or unless we get PR. Even UKIP which had the active backing of much of the Tory media, only ever got 1 MP. Just one. And that only by way of defection

The Tories have been a Toxic brand in the past. Remember the days before Cameron? From the ERM fiasco of 1992 right up to Cameron's accession as leader in 2005, the Tories were toxic. Some struggled to see how they'd ever get elected again. But times change. People move on. Any apparent toxicity is not set in stone. It just takes the right leader with the right agenda. Am personally not at all sure that Starmer is it, but I remain in the party so I can vote when it matters. Starmer will not be leader forever.

The trick is to get through the door. Corbyn,s history made it easy make him appear toxic , to the degree he would never have got through the door. Whether he was or was not toxic doesn't matter he was worked over soundly by our independent media.    As you say Starmer might not be the leader for ever. But one things for sure . The Tories . Will only be eased out by someone that is crowing extremes and little else. Once the door is open the party has a chance . But don't expect the establishment to roll over just because someone shouts louder than the people that opened the door.

[Thomas]

I was not asking for any action to be taken, it's seriously no biggie. Merely unnecessary rudeness towards an attempt at a reasonable post. Just thought I would comment to that effect. Now sod off! (only joking, )

you were being unnecessarily rude to john of gwent and the welsh earlier on , but thats different isnt it?

Honestly steve whata feckin coward you are. If someone using nasty big swear word to you isnt an problem , why open your feckin mouth?

[srb7677]

how do you imagine labour came in to being?

Times were different back then. We had a mass industrial society with mass unions and a massive industrial and entirely unrepresented working class. It still took nearly five decades before there was a majority Labour government. The struggling millions cannot wait that long now. We are more likely to get PR much sooner than that if and when we get a hung parliament. Which for that reason is probably a more desirable and likely outcome than an outright Labour majority.

After all, if Blair had not gotten his massive majority in 1997 and was dependent upon Lib Dem support, we'd probably have had PR 20 years ago.

[srb7677]

well there were complaints the mods were too heavy handed,we had a vote and decided feck off was perfectly acceptable as used by Mrs Brown on the beeb,it's mainstream and not ott,you might consider it impolite but say I told a poster to sod off it's how you take it.

Now if you were told to f*** off it would probably get edited out.

I was not asking for any action to be taken, it's seriously no biggie. Merely unnecessary rudeness towards an attempt at a reasonable post. Just thought I would comment to that effect. Now sod off! (only joking, )

[Thomas]

You beat me to it Thomas,and he's right Steve how do you imagine labour came in to being?

I know its an old cliche cromwell , but the likes of keir hardie must be turning in his grave watching what labour and their cosy feet support have morphed into in the 21st century.

I honestly believe we are watching the death throes of a once great party.

[cromwell]

None of which in any way alters the points I was making.

But your typically polite and erudite rebuttal is duly noted.

well there were complaints the mods were too heavy handed,we had a vote and decided feck off was perfectly acceptable as used by Mrs Brown on the beeb,it's mainstream and not ott,you might consider it impolite but say I told a poster to sod off it's how you take it.

Now if you were told to f*** off it would probably get edited out.

[Thomas]

You beat me to it Thomas,and he's right Steve how do you imagine labour came in to being?

Its nothing more than steve usual limp wristed excuse hiding behind fptp system to justify his continued support for a party that has failed repeatedly , by steves on words over many years , to live up to his expectation and support.

Its laughable listening to it.

[cromwell]

SNP and their success over the last 14 years says this is bollocks steve .

Told you that before . Are you claiming the english people , alone of the people in the developed world  , are incapable of forming a new party which could rise to challenge the conservatives ?

Sorry this is puerile nonsense , aimed merely to justify engaging in the same tired old two party race that has failed you time and again.

You have been telling me for years hopw much you despise blairites like starmer , but at every opportunity just can't bring yourself to do something different , trotting out the same tired old excuses time and again to justify the status quo of supporting labour , a party who by your own admission time and again are unrecognisible.

You beat me to it Thomas,and he's right Steve how do you imagine labour came in to being?

[srb7677]

Oh do feck off. This is about someone complaining that people who can't pronounce her name are being "malicious". Its nothing but victim playing.

None of which in any way alters the points I was making.

But your typically polite and erudite rebuttal is duly noted.