labour whining about coal mine and how they are seen as a result of this

[Thomas]

In office he continued Thatcherite housing policies unchanged whilst himself profiting from them.

The housing crisis of today is part of the price paid.

Don't assume that he is in any way representative of me. I have the utmost disdain for Blair. He achieved what Thatcher alone could never have. He cemented Thatcherism in place so it became the new normal, any challenge to it erroneously assumed to be extremist.

you say that about thatcher , but it has been pointed out time and again , that so called nasty thatcher and her party you so hate  , and her  thatcherite policies built more houses by far than the 13 years labour were last in government. So was it thatcherite policies at fault , or labours incompetence of not building any houses and flooding the uk with millions of immigrants among many other issues?

Starmer supports thatcherite policies , yet not one word of criticism from you , or at best you tell us you will still blindly follow labour in hope of "jam tomorrow".

[Thomas]

No surprise Thomas liked this risible shit by the way. It is right up his street.

Zero desire to access whatever shit he posted in response though.

Every time I see Thomas's presence I feel an urge to wave this  at him by way of wind up. Not big and clever I know but it brings a smile to my face.

Despite constantly telling everyone you have me on ignore, here yet again you can't help talking about me?

Why would a union flag waving emoji wind me up steve?

Yet again , not only does this comment make you look shallow and childish steve , but on a political forum it shows how devoid of political arguments you really are except the usual lefty whine of the poor the poor and the nhs.

You do realise as well steve , the union flag in scotland isnt the sign of mainstream britishness , but seen as the emblem of hardcore right wing ulster unionism.? The very right wing you always claim to hate?( the labour party in scotland have a 100 year old history of distancing themselves from the union flag up until recently , which lo and behold coincides with their fall from grace)

This flag though is a good example of labours problems in both scotland and england. In scotland , by waving the union flag , you alienate yourself from over half the voting public , and are left scratching about in the dirt with the other unionist parties for the dregs of the unionist vote , hence in part labours mass fall from grace .

Union flag shagging as you lefties call it is never going to be a sensible policy in scotland.......becuase the unionists will always get behind the tories  , and labour will never out union the tories in scotland.

In england , where the union flag and the english flag was always more or less seen as intertwinable up till recent years , you have the same problem. Everyones knows labour has pissed on both the english and union flag for years , and that starmer would sell that union flag out for the european flag.

On top of that , as cromwell says , everyone still remembers the sneering hatred of clowns like lady nugee and labours hatred of the patriotic english/british white van man.

So you keep waving your flag , im more than happy at your stupidity and lack of awareness how everyone sees labour when it comes to flag shagging and how false labour look while doing it.

[srb7677]

Well that would be fine but how many times have you posted that "we in the Labour Party" and quoted labours represents this or that so naturally you are seen as representing the Labour Party on here that's how you portray it.

However despite all that and telling me I talk shit you are still unable to explain why long term labour supporters deserted them and are the gammons thickos and racists,it's not that difficult a question.

Well that question is built upon pejorative assumptions, ie that all ex-Labour voters in my view are racists, thickos and gammons. Some might be at least one of those things but I do not think it true of most. The sort of people who are the typical gammons and racists are your Sun reader types, working class Tories for the most part. Labour never had their vote in the first place in most cases, except perhaps when Murdoch told them to vote for Blair.

Long term Labour voters deserted because the middle class triumphalist Blairites took them for granted and treated them with disdain. Some of them adopted an intense desire to give the Establishment a good kicking and seized upon Brexit as the opportunity. That Labour failed to understand this and misunderstood them cemented their contempt for a middle class party. When Corbyn came along with policies to address their concerns at last, those policies were popular. But Corbyn himself was not amongst older people at least, demonised as he was in the media. Nevertheless, by addressing working class concerns at last Labour polled more votes in 2017 than almost ever before. Because of people buying into the myth  of Brexit though the Tories polled even more and were still the largest party in spite of losing their majority.

I await the torrents of shit in response to this. It won't be long in coming.

[cromwell]

I am here to represent my own opinions, my membership of the Labour party notwithstanding. If you cannot accept that about me that's your problem. I am highly critical of Blair and always have been, have strong doubts about Starmer but will not to told what to do about it by SNP cheerleaders in kilts, and didn't even agree with Corbyn on everything and recognise failings. I am here as me, not as the official spokesman for the Labour party.

Well that would be fine but how many times have you posted that "we in the Labour Party" and quoted labours represents this or that so naturally you are seen as representing the Labour Party on here that's how you portray it.

However despite all that and telling me I talk shit you are still unable to explain why long term labour supporters deserted them and are the gammons thickos and racists,it's not that difficult a question.

[srb7677]

Ah I see so unable to answer my post,you resort to slagging off the forum and once more telling me I talk shit.

Tell me Steve point to a post where I said that your beliefs are shit,I disagree with them......no actually more with labour who you claim to represent.

I am here to represent my own opinions, my membership of the Labour party notwithstanding. If you cannot accept that about me that's your problem. I am highly critical of Blair and always have been, have strong doubts about Starmer but will not to told what to do about it by SNP cheerleaders in kilts, and didn't even agree with Corbyn on everything and recognise failings. I am here as me, not as the official spokesman for the Labour party.

[cromwell]

Tis often the case - especially on this rabid snakepit of a forum - that views don't align with mine.

But there is much venom from you for everything I believe in, so much so that it poisons your every response into a form of misrepresentation of me which better fits your assumptions. You have shoehorned me in your mind into the position of representative of everything you hate about Labour. And that colours everything. The fact that I speak for myself and not my party is never even acknowledged. So yes, sadly, you talk a lot of shit about me without even realising it.

Ah I see so unable to answer my post,you resort to slagging off the forum and once more telling me I talk shit.

Tell me Steve point to a post where I said that your beliefs are shit,I disagree with them......no actually more with labour who you claim to represent.

[srb7677]

Right so unable to answer my post with any rationality you resort to insults........talking out of my arse,really? and that's because my views don't align with yours.

Tell us what has poisoned your mind that you see once staunch labour voters the way you do?

Tis often the case - especially on this rabid snakepit of a forum - that views don't align with mine.

But there is much venom from you for everything I believe in, so much so that it poisons your every response into a form of misrepresentation of me which better fits your assumptions. You have shoehorned me in your mind into the position of representative of everything you hate about Labour. And that colours everything. The fact that I speak for myself and not my party is never even acknowledged. So yes, sadly, you talk a lot of shit about me without even realising it.

[cromwell]

When I am accused of talking down to people for addressing their legitimate concerns, when they are the concerns of the many working class people I work with and live amongst, I think I am within my rights to accuse my accusers of speaking out of the wrong orifice. When for doing so I am compared to Emily Thornberry, I am within my rights to accuse my accusers of speaking out of the orifice from which only shit can be expected, because that is all they are giving.

Sorry if that offends.

You came back

Offended? not in the slightest,expected something with more substance though than "I'don't agree so you're talking shit"

You've still not managed to explain why all those voters from contituencies labour held for generations
morphed in to gammons,racists and terminally stupid. Again your words,thornberrys and similar ilk......not mine.

[srb7677]

And the answer to the posts above which were neither insulting nor in anyway patronising but were reasonable and a critique of labour as it stands now.........you logged off.

I spread myself over multiple forums - you do not have my exclusive attention, sorry to break it to you - so yes I will log off sometimes and post elsewhere.

But as you can see, when I have the time and a spare moment I will tend to return.

[srb7677]

Neither Cromwell or Thomas, nor me either, have ever said any of those things "don't actually matter" to ordinary people, or anything remotely like that - so stop accusing people of of talking out of their arse when you post things like the above which have no basis in fact (unless of course, you can provide a quote of any of us "working clarse" actually say anything like that?)

What we object to is Middle Class university educated elitists preaching to us like we were fecking children and telling us what is best for us. That and divisive agenda driven politicians tail wagging the dog, and divisive identity politics taking priority over the real issues, some of which you've mentioned above.

But hey, thats a typical response from you, isn't it? Doing exactly what we all keep saying you do - telling everyone what they "think" and what is best for them. You can't even do that accurately, so you make up an illusory image of 2 posters who have never to my knowledge in 10 or so years posting here have ever said they "don't think those things actually matter"

We are all "Alf Garnetts" because we don't agree with "woke" agenda politics. And you keep talking about Labour coming back as if it will win an election. How on earth its ever going to do that when its natural voters left it years ago, precisely because its become a party full of people exactly like you

When I am accused of talking down to people for addressing their legitimate concerns, when they are the concerns of the many working class people I work with and live amongst, I think I am within my rights to accuse my accusers of speaking out of the wrong orifice. When for doing so I am compared to Emily Thornberry, I am within my rights to accuse my accusers of speaking out of the orifice from which only shit can be expected, because that is all they are giving.

Sorry if that offends.

[cromwell]

And the answer to the posts above which were neither insulting nor in anyway patronising but were reasonable and a critique of labour as it stands now.........you logged off.

[DeppityDawg]

Just because you seem to think that things like more social housing, security of tenure and rent caps in the private sector, a living wage for all, a crackdown on exploitative and insecure work contracts, free university tuition, a green new deal, a roll back of outsourcing in the NHS and elsewhere, don't actually matter to ordinary people, do not make the mistake of assuming you speak for all. Because they do matter for many millions.

Neither Cromwell or Thomas, nor me either, have ever said any of those things "don't actually matter" to ordinary people, or anything remotely like that - so stop accusing people of of talking out of their arse when you post things like the above which have no basis in fact (unless of course, you can provide a quote of any of us "working clarse" actually say anything like that?)

What we object to is Middle Class university educated elitists preaching to us like we were fecking children and telling us what is best for us. That and divisive agenda driven politicians tail wagging the dog, and divisive identity politics taking priority over the real issues, some of which you've mentioned above.

But hey, thats a typical response from you, isn't it? Doing exactly what we all keep saying you do - telling everyone what they "think" and what is best for them. You can't even do that accurately, so you make up an illusory image of 2 posters who have never to my knowledge in 10 or so years posting here have ever said they "don't think those things actually matter"

We are all "Alf Garnetts" because we don't agree with "woke" agenda politics. And you keep talking about Labour coming back as if it will win an election. How on earth its ever going to do that when its natural voters left it years ago, precisely because its become a party full of people exactly like you

[cromwell]

Where is the icon for an arse when you need one? Because you are talking out of yours as usual, blinded by your own assumptions. You think you understand me but understand jack shit outside your own jaundiced blinkers. Brexit has poisoned your mind with hate.

Right so unable to answer my post with any rationality you resort to insults........talking out of my arse,really? and that's because my views don't align with yours.

Tell us what has poisoned your mind that you see once staunch labour voters the way you do?

[srb7677]

As predicted......in denial.
You have assumed I,others on here and those gammons  and thickos (your words and thornberrys not mine) of the old  labour red wall are not concerned.....they are after all the epitome of working class you despise as racists and stupid whilst pretending to represent them.
BTW you talk of insults yet happily label others views as risible shit because you are unwilling or unable to see labour has deserted the very people who made it in favour of the likes of thornberry and starmer who wouldn't recognise a working class person if they walked into or more likely trod on them.
Your erstwhile leader and bearded hero and momentum are as divorced from ordinary people as the former.

Where is the icon for an arse when you need one? Because you are talking out of yours as usual, blinded by your own assumptions. You think you understand me but understand jack shit outside your own jaundiced blinkers. Brexit has poisoned your mind with hate.

[cromwell]

Talking of backsides, you seem to be talking out of yours again, comparing me to Emily Thornberry. Unlike her I am solidly working class for one thing. Most of my friends and family are too. I do a working class job. for working class pay, and live on a working class estate. I live and breathe the working class. Comparing me to Thornberry has the air of deliberate insult about it.

And just because I recognise many working class concerns and want to see them addressed, you mislabel that as talking down to people. Talk about twisting the facts to fit the desired conclusion.

No surprise Thomas liked this risible shit by the way. It is right up his street.

Zero desire to access whatever shit he posted in response though.

Every time I see Thomas's presence I feel an urge to wave this  at him by way of wind up. Not big and clever I know but it brings a smile to my face.

As predicted......in denial.
You have assumed I,others on here and those gammons  and thickos (your words and thornberrys not mine) of the old  labour red wall are not concerned.....they are after all the epitome of working class you despise as racists and stupid whilst pretending to represent them.
BTW you talk of insults yet happily label others views as risible shit because you are unwilling or unable to see labour has deserted the very people who made it in favour of the likes of thornberry and starmer who wouldn't recognise a working class person if they walked into or more likely trod on them.
Your erstwhile leader and bearded hero and momentum are as divorced from ordinary people as the former.