labour whining about coal mine and how they are seen as a result of this

[Thomas]

Let's just clarify that when I was talking about hate, I meant that it is directed at the Labour party even when it says things you would otherwise agree with, eg more social housing, a living wage for all, etc. I wasn't really accusing you of hating me personally.

Labour just voted AGAINST an improved pay package for scottish care staff at the scottish parliament 2 nights ago , national pay bargaining  , improved support for unpaid carers so with respect im fecked if i believe your labour party on things like a living wage for all.

While i truly believe such things to be YOUR aspiration , your party hierarchy and politicians are another matter.

As for more social housing , dont make me laugh steve...please.

[srb7677]

But that's the whole point Steve they promise it and never do it

Blair often promised without delivering. But the party should not be permanently judged for all time by his standards.

No one has ever promised a real living wage for all before, so you cannot say it is promised but never delivered.

But it is quite simple. If you like what Labour promises, vote for it. If you don't, do not. If you vote for it and it fails to deliver then you vote for someone else next time. Writing a party off in advance even when you agree with it, is unproductively cynical. You'll never get change thinking like that.

[Sheepy]

I don't think it has anything to do with hate, the thought of the Labour party in power sends even more chills up the spine than the Conservatives, which new Labour achieved all by themselves, which however I look at it, is rather an achievement.

[cromwell]

Let's just clarify that when I was talking about hate, I meant that it is directed at the Labour party even when it says things you would otherwise agree with,[highlight] eg more social housing, a living wage for all, etc. [/highlight]
I wasn't really accusing you of hating me personally.

But that's the whole point Steve they promise it and never do it

[srb7677]

For the last time no one is picking at you just disagreeing is all,chill ffs.

Let's just clarify that when I was talking about hate, I meant that it is directed at the Labour party even when it says things you would otherwise agree with, eg more social housing, a living wage for all, etc. I wasn't really accusing you of hating me personally.

[patman post]

A bit of an update, from 1985. But even then the impact of scrap steel processing was noted:
The United Kingdom generates about 8 million tonnes of scrap per year, of which 4 million tonnes are exported, mainly to Spain. The scrap, converted to steel, is then exported to other countries, including the United Kingdom. If Manchester Steel closes, it is likely that much of the 500,000 tonnes of scrap used by that company would be exported and that some would return to this country as the finished product.

It seems to me that some 35 years later, when the UK is looking to become a manufacturer, user and exporter of advanced beneficial products and technologies, its current expertise in renewable energy and storage should be capitalised on further...

[cromwell]

Update
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1985/jun/05/manchester-steel-ltd-closure

[patman post]

∆∆∆
It was also done during The War. But new technologies are being developed in electrical arc production and using hydrogen. The UK is claiming itself among the leaders in energy production and storage. Why shouldn't it also work on efficient and cleaner uses for electrical energy...?

[cromwell]

Reference the title and opening post, Ed Miliband's sentiments seem logical.

To recap:  The UK cannot claim to be a climate leader whilst opening a new coal mine and Ministers must realise that by doing so they undermine our credibility both at home and abroad.
A new mine is neither the answer for climate change nor the answer for our steel industry. Indeed, 85% of the mine's production is due for export.

The jobs argument seems a red herring — there are many activities that would provide more jobs if they were still tolerated, eg, large scale mining and delivering coal for domestic use, asbestos production, use of outlawed timber, etc.
So using the excuse of jobs to open a new coal mine that will supply the home steel industry, when 85% of the coal is for export, seems lame.

The world produces around 1.6 billion tonnes of steel every year. And around 0.8 tonne of coal is used and 2.1 tonnes of CO2 emitted from the raw materials to produce one tonne of new steel.

However, approx 500 million tonnes of steel is recycled every year from scrap.

[highlight]Recycling steel production, using electric arc furnace recycled needs just 16kg of coal. And as recycled steel makes up 32% of the world's total steel production, isn't this a market the UK should be going after, while still pursuing its claimed aim of reduced CO2 emissions....?[/highlight]

We had that here,it was sold off dismantled and shipped to China

[cromwell]

Cromwell insists upon constantly throwing my former use of the word back in my face at every opportunity, in spite of my regrets and attempts to move on. Obviously that is not allowed so if I get it thrown back at me at every turn why bother to avoid it? It is pointless.

As for what is and is not important, you may not have denied the importance of the things I argued for, but you constantly attack the Labour party and myself for advocating them. Seems your dislike of the messenger matters more to you than the message. And in that sense it appears that the message is less important to you than your hatred of the messenger. Which gives it's own impression that you have disdain for the message, seeing it as Labour talking down to you for saying something you say you agree with. Lol

So when Labour says something you disagree with you hate it for it. But when it says something you agree with you hate it for talking down to you. You are therefore clearly a lost cause, cemented in your hate no matter what the party does. You have no open mind at all. Cromwell is himself a less bullish version of you who nevertheless thinks the same way.

You're not getting it Steve,nobody hates you......nobody even hates labour just despise maybe,also you say people tell you what you're thinking and it's wrong then you go on to tell us what we're thinking.
For the last time no one is picking at you just disagreeing is all,chill ffs.

[patman post]

Reference the title and opening post, Ed Miliband's sentiments seem logical.

To recap:  The UK cannot claim to be a climate leader whilst opening a new coal mine and Ministers must realise that by doing so they undermine our credibility both at home and abroad.
A new mine is neither the answer for climate change nor the answer for our steel industry. Indeed, 85% of the mine's production is due for export.

The jobs argument seems a red herring — there are many activities that would provide more jobs if they were still tolerated, eg, large scale mining and delivering coal for domestic use, asbestos production, use of outlawed timber, etc.
So using the excuse of jobs to open a new coal mine that will supply the home steel industry, when 85% of the coal is for export, seems lame.

The world produces around 1.6 billion tonnes of steel every year. And around 0.8 tonne of coal is used and 2.1 tonnes of CO2 emitted from the raw materials to produce one tonne of new steel.

However, approx 500 million tonnes of steel is recycled every year from scrap.

Recycling steel production, using electric arc furnace recycled needs just 16kg of coal. And as recycled steel makes up 32% of the world's total steel production, isn't this a market the UK should be going after, while still pursuing its claimed aim of reduced CO2 emissions...?

[srb7677]

I'm not sure he takes its 'personally', I think he just sees your stark and entitled hypocrisy

Why is it you keep using a word that others have told you they find offensive? You wouldn't dare use the N word to describe a black Sun reader, yet you feel perfectly entitled to use a word that mocks someones skin colour for being white? Why do you think this is ok out of curiousity? Or is it ok when you offend people, just no one must offend you?

As for the rest of your replies, you still havent provided a quote that shows either Cromwell, Thomas, me or the other Alf Garnets on the forum saying the things you mention "are not important"?

Cromwell insists upon constantly throwing my former use of the word back in my face at every opportunity, in spite of my regrets and attempts to move on. Obviously that is not allowed so if I get it thrown back at me at every turn why bother to avoid it? It is pointless.

As for what is and is not important, you may not have denied the importance of the things I argued for, but you constantly attack the Labour party and myself for advocating them. Seems your dislike of the messenger matters more to you than the message. And in that sense it appears that the message is less important to you than your hatred of the messenger. Which gives it's own impression that you have disdain for the message, seeing it as Labour talking down to you for saying something you say you agree with. Lol

So when Labour says something you disagree with you hate it for it. But when it says something you agree with you hate it for talking down to you. You are therefore clearly a lost cause, cemented in your hate no matter what the party does. You have no open mind at all. Cromwell is himself a less bullish version of you who nevertheless thinks the same way.

[DeppityDawg]

The fact that you can't get over the fact that I regard some Sun reader types as gammons is clearly an issue though because you are forever brining it up unbidden. It is as if you take it personally.

I'm not sure he takes its 'personally', I think he just sees your stark and entitled hypocrisy

Why is it you keep using a word that others have told you they find offensive? You wouldn't dare use the N word to describe a black Sun reader, yet you feel perfectly entitled to use a word that mocks someones skin colour for being white? Why do you think this is ok out of curiousity? Or is it ok when you offend people, just no one must offend you?

As for the rest of your replies, you still havent provided a quote that shows either Cromwell, Thomas, me or the other Alf Garnets on the forum saying the things you mention "are not important"?

[cromwell]

My language can be a bit blunt but it's really nothing personal.

The fact that you can't get over the fact that I regard some Sun reader types as gammons is clearly an issue though because you are forever brining it up unbidden. It is as if you take it personally.

Newsflash, when I think of a typical gammon I do not have you in mind. You are far too intelligent to be so described. It tends to be the intellectually challenged working class Tory types that I am insulting, the sort of people who would never vote Labour in a million years unless told to do so by the Sun

Well Steve I'm not really bothered as I have been called a lot worse,I engaged with you and was polite (though I usually am) because you were complaining people were hostile to your every post.

I wasn't hostile but did question your thinking re labour and brexit and the result was  pretty similar resulting in the torrents of shit which just illustrates how you react to any approach.

You say you weren't being personal......no neither were others it's just a political forum and if you want to shout labours magnificence from the rooftops good for you but don't expect an easy ride,even the most ardent labour supporter must realise your approval rating in traditional labour areas is at an all time low.

[Thomas]

My language can be a bit blunt but it's really nothing personal.

are you mental or what?

You moan at me , whinging to the mods that the bad man on the interwebby is being blunt with you......and here you justify to cromwell how your own language is a bit blunt and its nothing personal.?

Honestly steve you are a feckin fraud mate.Do as you say not as you do eh?

This bleating about bad language and personal comments is nothing more than your ususal tactic to close down debate because someone on the interwebby is telling the truth about labour and you dont want it to shatter your fantasy illussion.