Should zero Covid be the objective?

[srb7677]

It's pointless debating with you.  You don't read what I post.  I asked for a count of people whose death was "caused by Covid", and you talk about "death figures".  Please define "death figures".  Otherwise, put that bucket away, learn the definition of conspiracy, and educate yourself about the term 'conflict of interest'.

Covid deaths are reported every single day. Pull your head out of your arse and you might notice instead of spouting rubbish.

[Barry]

Yet it does not stop people (e.g. Barry) referring to it as nonsense.

Just to be clear, I don't deny that Covid is a serious disease amongst the old, especially.
The "nonsense" refers to the lockdowns.
Comparing our death graphs with Sweden, our case number graphs with Sweden, they appear the same.
Lockdowns have done very little, or it would have been 3 weeks to flatten the curve and it would have been done.
Viruses are obviously better than government at doing their thing.

[Scott777]

An actual conspiracy is real,

Thanks for that nugget of information.  So you mean an actual thing is a real thing.  🤣

[Scott777]

We are presented with the death figures every day in the pigging news. Or do you think that is a lie?

So a scientific advisor has shares in a drug company which motivates his desire for lockdowns? Is that it? Methinks you must be the one smoking hash with dubious and tenuous thinking like that. That is classic conspiracy thinking right there. But that is supposedly one motivation for one person. Anymore examples?

It's pointless debating with you.  You don't read what I post.  I asked for a count of people whose death was "caused by Covid", and you talk about "death figures".  Please define "death figures".  Otherwise, put that bucket away, learn the definition of conspiracy, and educate yourself about the term 'conflict of interest'.

[srb7677]

Are you on the hash now?  Yes, Covid exists.  I never insinuated it doesn't.  So please provide the evidence that there is a count of people whose death was "caused by Covid".  Take your time.

I answered your question very clearly, so I will repeat it.  "Different people have different motivations. Pat Vallance has shares in GSK."  So, maybe you didn't understand: money is one motivation.

We are presented with the death figures every day in the pigging news. Or do you think that is a lie?

So a scientific advisor has shares in a drug company which motivates his desire for lockdowns? Is that it? Methinks you must be the one smoking hash with dubious and tenuous thinking like that. That is classic conspiracy thinking right there. But that is supposedly one motivation for one person. Anymore examples?

[Scott777]

That is itself nonsense. The deaths are counted every day. What are you trying to insinuate? That covid doesn't exist?

Answer my question. What do you think are the motivations behind lockdowns if not public safety?

Thus far you are reeking of conspiracy theorist thinking but seem strangely fearful of spelling out what you think and only drop hints. Why do you think we have lockdowns?

Are you on the hash now?  Yes, Covid exists.  I never insinuated it doesn't.  So please provide the evidence that there is a count of people whose death was "caused by Covid".  Take your time.

I answered your question very clearly, so I will repeat it.  "Different people have different motivations. Pat Vallance has shares in GSK."  So, maybe you didn't understand: money is one motivation.

[Scott777]

Scott, conspiracies are usually involve a relatively small number of people of like minded views not the vast majority of our political representatives, most of the medical profession and virtually all those who know a good deal about the way viruses can spread and the best way to deal with it. Also none of these people have anything to gain by taking the actions they are doing. Is it possible that there are ways to handle this without lockdowns etc.? Maybe, but it would need a lot of luck and would be gambling with millions of lives. As I said before, the Black Death killed 60% of the population and that was a bacterium not a virus that can fight back if allowed to reproduce sufficiently.

To reply to your recent post, the deaths recorded and shown during Boris's briefings make it clear that the deaths are all verified as those who have been found to test positive for COVID. If you mean the virus does not actually kill (I don't think you do mean this) it may become less clear if you assume that those with underlying conditions or the aged and infirm are really dying from other things and the virus just helps them along. It would be a callous view to take but would indeed change the picture slightly.

I can only assume to are not using the word 'conspiracy' correctly.  I have repeatedly said there is no big conspiracy.  Just because lots of people are going along with it does not mean they conspired.  People love money, politicians like power, and power corrupts.  If you employ only the experts who agree with your position, and block or sack the others, then you get what you see.  It's that simple.  So you give me an example of someone who has no vested interest in the official narrative.

No one has provided any evidence that we are gambling with more lives than we do with the flu.

As has been said before, a positive PCR test does demonstrate a viral infection.  So, yes, many of the 'Covid' deaths are inevitably from other things.

[Sheepy]

That is bullshit. An actual conspiracy is real, and generally involves a small number of people in the know. A conspiracy theory is often paranoid nonsense based upon nothing, yet it is discussed openly. The latter does not cause the former.

Well actually a conspiracy theory is usually the opposite of what is trotted out as the establishment line/answer, Thomas is caught right in the middle of one. It is no longer a conspiracy once proved correct.

[srb7677]

All bona fide conspiracies start off as conspiracy theories.

That is bullshit. An actual conspiracy is real, and generally involves a small number of people in the know. A conspiracy theory is often paranoid nonsense based upon nothing, yet it is discussed openly. The latter does not cause the former.

[srb7677]

There are no figures for deaths caused by Covid.  Only with Covid.

That is itself nonsense. The deaths are counted every day. What are you trying to insinuate? That covid doesn't exist?

Answer my question. What do you think are the motivations behind lockdowns if not public safety?

Thus far you are reeking of conspiracy theorist thinking but seem strangely fearful of spelling out what you think and only drop hints. Why do you think we have lockdowns?

[grumzed]

Scott, conspiracies are usually involve a relatively small number of people of like minded views not the vast majority of our political representatives, most of the medical profession and virtually all those who know a good deal about the way viruses can spread and the best way to deal with it. Also none of these people have anything to gain by taking the actions they are doing. Is it possible that there are ways to handle this without lockdowns etc.? Maybe, but it would need a lot of luck and would be gambling with millions of lives. As I said before, the Black Death killed 60% of the population and that was a bacterium not a virus that can fight back if allowed to reproduce sufficiently.

To reply to your recent post, the deaths recorded and shown during Boris's briefings make it clear that the deaths are all verified as those who have been found to test positive for COVID. If you mean the virus does not actually kill (I don't think you do mean this) it may become less clear if you assume that those with underlying conditions or the aged and infirm are really dying from other things and the virus just helps them along. It would be a callous view to take but would indeed change the picture slightly.

[Scott777]

To be clear there are more "excess" deaths caused by Covid in the UK than...

There are no figures for deaths caused by Covid.  Only with Covid.

[grumzed]

To be clear there are more "excess" deaths caused by Covid in the UK than civilian deaths in the UK tha those excess deaths caused by WW2. And, if no action had have been taken the rise would have continued. It may have levelled due to some immunities being built up but the rate at which the virus mutates combined with the larger numbers of infected people could make it more likely to not stay at the levels of infection it has so far reached but reach a much higher level. At present it has mainly killed those with pre-existing conditions and the elderly (though not exclusively) which, I assume most of those arguing for relaxation of government policies, accept as necessary collateral damage. Large numbers of mutations also mean that vaccines are chasing a faster moving target.

Yes, it is tough on the economy and it is not great being confined as most of us are. But. look on the bright side, it has driven me to come back to this site :-).

[Scott777]

I think you are conflating conspiracy theories with bona fide conspiracies.

All bona fide conspiracies start off as conspiracy theories.

[Sheepy]

I think you are conflating conspiracy theories with bona fide conspiracies.

Watergate was never any kind of conspiracy theory. It was an actual conspiracy for real that few had any inkling of until it was exposed by the media. I am all for actual conspiracies being exposed, as opposed to believing in any old hare brained shite the delusional come up with.

So again, what do you think are the actual motivations behind the lockdowns if not public safety?

You asked for some conspiracy theories that had been proved as correct so you got a few. Now you are off on another Tangent.