Should zero Covid be the objective?

[Barry]

According to this we should be at level 3.
The current rate of positive tests is 2.5 in a thousand. Who knows how many of those are really true positives?

There's a legal challenge about to go forward by the hospitality lot who think they are being unnecessarily discriminated against whilst all retail will open.

2 more weeks of stay at home? That will be 20 weeks (5 months) of a 3 week lockdown to flatten the curve then.
Talk about goalposts!

[Sheepy]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/confusion-mistrust-government-urged-publish-175249673.html
Just goalposts Barry.

[Barry]

Because of increased schools testing the number of tests has dramatically increased in the last few days with over 1.6 million tests done in 24 hours. Many of these will have been LF tests. Reports are that the rare positive LF tests are being followed up by pupils with PCR tests, and are negative. However the government insist on the pupil continuing to self isolate along with classmates.

There seems to be no logical thought behind this continued torture of our children and grandchildren.

Current level of positive tests is 4 in a thousand.

[grumzed]

Scott, the PCR test IS fairly accurate!! Your disputations are not dissimilar to that of flat earthers given the worldwide evidence. It is a fair argument, if rather harsh, to suggest that it may be an approach to let the virus take its course, after all it is only largely killing the elderly and infirm. At least that would be an honest approach rather than disputing (wrongly) the data presented. Perhaps we are too much of a caring society? But, even then, it would not be so wise to ignore a virus like this that can mutate quickly.

[Scott777]

I suspect the medical profession know a lot more about this virus and it's impact than you do. Where is your evidence that it is all bullshit? And that the medical profession is in on it? You have never presented a single shred. Yet you expect to be taken seriously.

Yes, and I agree with the medical professionals who signed the Great Barrington Declaration, and with Dr Mike Yeadon and Professor Dolores Cahill and so many others who said the pandemic ended last June, so thanks for agreeing that they know a lot about this virus.  😁  And where did I say it's all bullshit?  I never said the virus is not real.  I said the PCR test is not accurate.  I provided evidence of deaths in 2020, which you ignored, but you still haven't backed up your claim about how many deaths were caused by Covid.  But have another bucket, sit back and enjoy your ignorance.  🤣

[srb7677]

No, the lack of intelligence is all yours.  A conspiracy would be where everyone agreed with each other to lie.  The reality is that some people have lied, and some people are stupid, and some people just don't know because they haven't looked into PCR tests, and people who know it's bullshite and speak out can be silenced by the medical profession and by the media and by social media, usually due to financial interests.  None of that is a conspiracy, and none of it is hard to believe, but your false definition of conspiracy is why you keep using the word.

There are many medical professionals who do not believe there has been a remarkable pandemic, and so you have got it wrong about "the entire medical profession".  There are over 13,000 scientists and over 41,000 medical practitioners who have signed the Great Barrington Declaration, who do not agree with the lockdown based on the severity of any pandemic.

It is all bullshite and anyone who speaks out can be silenced by a medical profession usually motivated by financial interests? And you deny that's a conspiracy theory? Lol

You know what? I suspect the medical profession know a lot more about this virus and it's impact than you do. Where is your evidence that it is all bullshit? And that the medical profession is in on it? You have never presented a single shred. Yet you expect to be taken seriously.

[Scott777]

If you think people are lying about covid because of financial motivations - and everybody in the medical profession appears to be in on this supposed lie - then of course you are suggesting a conspiracy.

You appear to be a conspiracy theorist in denial.

What the hell have you been trying to argue against all this time? The reality of covid? Then why do you think everyone including the entire medical profession are lying to us? You are talking like a conspiracy theorist without even having the intelligence to realise it, it seems.

No, the lack of intelligence is all yours.  A conspiracy would be where everyone agreed with each other to lie.  The reality is that some people have lied, and some people are stupid, and some people just don't know because they haven't looked into PCR tests, and people who know it's bullshite and speak out can be silenced by the medical profession and by the media and by social media, usually due to financial interests.  None of that is a conspiracy, and none of it is hard to believe, but your false definition of conspiracy is why you keep using the word.

There are many medical professionals who do not believe there has been a remarkable pandemic, and so you have got it wrong about "the entire medical profession".  There are over 13,000 scientists and over 41,000 medical practitioners who have signed the Great Barrington Declaration, who do not agree with the lockdown based on the severity of any pandemic.

[srb7677]

There we have it - you misuse the word conspiracy.  Doing something dishonestly for money is not the meaning of conspiracy.  There was no conspiracy.

If you think people are lying about covid because of financial motivations - and everybody in the medical profession appears to be in on this supposed lie - then of course you are suggesting a conspiracy.

You appear to be a conspiracy theorist in denial.

What the hell have you been trying to argue against all this time? The reality of covid? Then why do you think everyone including the entire medical profession are lying to us? You are talking like a conspiracy theorist without even having the intelligence to realise it, it seems.

[Scott777]

I wouldn't know. I don't touch the stuff and havent for decades.....you are the one trying to suggest that the entire medical community are involved in some kind of conspiracy - you have already tried to suggest financial motivations. Yet you lack the guts to spell it out. Because you would look stupid I suspect.

What are you going on about if not denial of covid?

There we have it - you misuse the word conspiracy.  Doing something dishonestly for money is not the meaning of conspiracy.  There was no conspiracy.

[Scott777]

∆∆∆
I think it all comes down to who we believe, and the recorded trends.

But there are facts which are difficult to dispute.  That's total deaths, which was not remarkable. The rest is unknown.

[srb7677]

Which theory is that?  Which post did I say it in?  I'm intrigued by it.  But the irony is, it's you who first mentioned a conspiracy.  Hash does make people paranoid.

I wouldn't know. I don't touch the stuff and havent for decades.....you are the one trying to suggest that the entire medical community are involved in some kind of conspiracy - you have already tried to suggest financial motivations. Yet you lack the guts to spell it out. Because you would look stupid I suspect.

What are you going on about if not denial of covid?

[patman post]

∆∆∆
I think it all comes down to who we believe, and the recorded trends. Personally, I go with what I can see the majority of experts are saying. And as I read a lot of business and technical material, as well as catching news programmes on radio and TV, it's a test I can also apply to measures to be taken in the face of Climate Change...

[Scott777]

Figures from Johns Hopkins appear to back up a different opinion to yours that "Covid, [....] is roughly as dangerous as the flu". It states: 
COVID-19: There have been approximately 2,594,813 deaths reported worldwide. 
Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that  290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes
every year worldwide. 
Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu. 
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Yes, that's obviously what happens if you categorise far too many deaths as 'Covid deaths', when in fact they were not.  Once again, it all comes down to the PCR test, and how deaths are recorded.

[patman post]

That's fine, but these diseases don't compare to Covid, which is roughly as dangerous as the flu, and nationwide lockdowns have never been used in the way they are now, and are not necessary, so I'm afraid your objective is "to the exclusion of reality".

Figures from Johns Hopkins appear to back up a different opinion to yours that "Covid, [....] is roughly as dangerous as the flu". It states: 
COVID-19: There have been approximately 2,594,813 deaths reported worldwide. 
Flu: The World Health Organization estimates that  290,000 to 650,000 people die of flu-related causes
every year worldwide. 
Doctors and scientists are working to estimate the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be substantially higher (possibly 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu. 
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

[Scott777]

Sure: diptheria, leprosy, polio, and smallpox are among diseases that have almost been eradicated in recent times by immunization, inoculation and vaccination. Short local isolations and lock-downs have been used for centuries to combat the spread of disease. 

For such epidemics as foot and mouth**, swine fever, and avian flu in animals, slaughter has also been a means of bringing outbreaks to a halt. The idea that possibly-infected, immigrants attempting to arrive illegally by boat, should be refused permission to land but "allowed" to perish at sea, could be of that same mindset. But it's not an acceptable reality...

***The Pirbright Institute and its research partners have granted a commercial licence for a new, effective and affordable vaccine to protect livestock against several serotypes of foot-and-mouth-disease (FMDV).

But one drawback of vaccination has been the difficulty of knowing whether any antibodies found in animals to be moved or for sale, are due to infection or vaccination. However these two sorts of response can now be distinguished. 

Identifying vaccinated and infected animals,  can allow trade to continue and mass culling in the event of an outbreak would not be needed.
https://www.pirbright.ac.uk/news/2019/09/pirbright-grants-licence-new-foot-and-mouth-disease-vaccine

That's fine, but these diseases don't compare to Covid, which is roughly as dangerous as the flu, and nationwide lockdowns have never been used in the way they are now, and are not necessary, so I'm afraid your objective is "to the exclusion of reality".