So Ner!

[Thomas]

What would other EU countries do and that included the UK as a defacto EU member at the time ? No country was prepared for this.

You sat on this forum and our old one for a year telling us how the uk had left the eu on 31/01/2020 and when i replied the uk hadnet fully left , it was in transition and remained a de facto member  , you argued the opposite , and now when the arugment suits , you try and spin it the other way.



Pathetic gerry .

You remind me of an old forum member on the old forum from years ago , a pro european tony blair worshipper and out and out blairite who stood alone trying to defend blair for years , long after jug ears had left power and new labour had been booted out , until finally it sank in his hero was no more and his new labour project nothing more than broken ruins.

Here you are again , as i told you before and borkie often points out a so called irishman who come on a uk political forum and spends evry waking moment of his time talking about the eu and defending the commission with barely a single reference to irish politcs except where it involves brexit or the eu has us all in stitches.

You have been beaten gerry , brexiters have won , and continue to win , not only that covid has stolen the wind from your sails  , with any potential economic downsides to brexit being washed away by covid 19 economic damage , and now the uk is running rings around the eu in terms of public approval and perception over vaccines , as the eu stumble from one crises to the next.

[GerryT]

Oh dear you are upset,me proven wrong? No that's you Gerry who only got halfway through the link and because it was from a German newspaper you knew you couldn't slag it off as an English rag,there are others but I suspect I'd be wasting my time because you only want to see it all as a disaster.....meanwhile Gerry we'll take the ups and downs just being happy to be gone whilst you simmer and marinate in your hatred of all things Brexit and the English.

A German article that's criticising procurement of face masks. Whats your point, I don't get it, whats to see, how is this related to brexit or the fact the UK is hoarding Vaccines. The fact of the 25m vaccines the UK boasts about 10m of them came from the EU. Like your next post, throw up lots of links and don't make a point, do you have any opinions of your own ? I could link the bible and look for you to read a couple of hundred pages. What is you point

p.s. while you figuring that out, can you give me that brexit benefit, you know the one great success story that brexit brought ? what is it ?

pps - how is VonDerLeyen a liar, its the whole topic of the thread and you haven't explained that one

[Thomas]

A PR disaster ?  who cares about PR

Who cares about PR?

What ! Political organisations which rely on the public approval and votes now doesnt care about PR?

Stop talking out your backside gerry. The EU and of course most governments i can think of have been trying desperately to media manage this whole covid 19 pandemic since day one because they care deeply about public approval.

In the eu case especially , they have been desperate to try and shift the blame for their terrible vaccine roll out onto drug companies and national governments in a desperate bid to shift public anger away from brussells.

The decision to leave had nothing to do with the vaccine roll-out and well you know it.

I didnt say it did.

The terrible way the eu has handled covid from the start , from abandoning the italians at day one , to trying to act as one lumbering behemoth with vaccinations and failing badly , to now running around like headless chickens blaming all and sundry has been a disaster for pro europeans and completely vindicated brexiters as i earlier said.

We see it on political forums ,across the news and media and social media , where pro europeans are either completely silent or hanging their heads in shame and dissapointment at the behaviour of the eu while brexiters are shaking their heads and saying told you so.

As cromwell and i have pointed out , both polling and european news and media sources are showing vast anger and dissapointment over the eu handling of this whole affair.

So no one wants to hear your bleating excuses about eu failure. After brussells blundering from one catastrophe to the next , the latest threat from them to withhold vaccines is only going to play yet again into the arms of brexiters , and turn even more people against your beloved eu.

[cromwell]

Oh well just in case you do pop back Gerry

Shameless criticism

The Tagesspiegel is left speechless at how the EU Commission is trying to pass the buck onto the manufacturers:

    "It borders on shamelessness. To put it mildly. ... Who is getting how much and when? How many doses are available? How many refrigerated containers are there? Who's taking care of transport? The requirements are not only national. Which is precisely why it's the EU's job to take care of them. ... In a concerted and concentrated effort of military precision. ... What the pharma industry has pulled off, with groundbreaking inventions at breakneck speed, is a wonder. But what the EU is doing makes you shake your head in wonder. And that's putting it politely."

Europe must get its own act together

Brussels is not reacting quickly enough, writes the Wiener Zeitung:

    "At the Brussels level you often hear complaints - and they are often justified - that in the member states primal political instincts are at work that give priority to quick successes over the long-term perspective, which by contrast is focused on the wellbeing of Europe as a whole. ... Perhaps the vaccine manufacturers also sense that time is not of the essence for Europe. There are reports that while neither the US nor Britain are facing delays in deliveries, the EU certainly is. ... The recurrent nightmare of the EU must be that some states and too many citizens are plagued by the suspicion that it might be better to get through the crisis without Brussels than with it."

The EU is behaving as if problems with pharmaceutical companies were a new thing, Avvenire fumes:

    "Ever since Aids, anyone who has followed the battle for access to essential medicines knows the script only too well. ... This time history is repeating itself on a global scale. ... In the race for the vaccine, governments have signed secret contracts with companies without setting out conditions for access to the vaccine that are based on public health criteria and without looking beyond their own borders. Disregarding the role they should play as good investors, European countries have engaged in a risky and unprecedented practice of leaving it to public institutions to purchase goods and services. ... This ineptitude is worrying."

Member states were too stingy

The scramble for vaccine deliveries is degenerating into a farce, Berlingske sighs:

    "Several EU countries have themselves contributed to slowing the pace by criticising the EU Commission's purchasing strategy in the 27-country Steering Committee. At the same time, the EU Commission was forced to buy cheaper than the US and Britain, for example, because member countries wanted to keep spending down. Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said last week that the EU was now more 'on the ball' in acquiring the vaccines and also agreed to provide more money if necessary. The only problem is that we should have signed the agreements that are bringing us these jabs half a year ago."

Break ranks with Brussels for the good of the citizens

Ireland's government should take matters into it own hands, The Sunday Times Ireland advises:

    "The EU's vaccine performance has been dire, and will cost further lives and livelihoods. The Irish government must do a better job of defending our interests. That might mean asking the British for surplus supplies. This should be considered, but probably won't be, because we would have to swallow our national pride and breach EU solidarity. For our government, indefinite lockdown may be preferable to annoying the European Commission, or not being seen to wear the EU jersey."

So there you go Gerry not an Englishrag for you to choke over,in fact the last reference from an Irish newspaper who don't seem to share your enthusiasm for all things eu.

[cromwell]

So that's a no then, you can't prove she's a liar, just checking and calling out your bullsh1t.
Then you throw up a link where I got half way through. The guts of it about irregular mask contracts but they sound in the half-penny place in comparison to the shenanigans in the UK regarding the same topic.

Your all emotion and no facts, simply put the UK is ahead of the game but only just and lets see in June where it all sits. The vaccine roll-out has been proven to have nothing to do with Brexit which I'm sure you agree but won't admit it as your sick of been proven wrong on here.

So where's that list of brexit success stories since leaving, give me 1, just 1, that would be great. If you do I'll give you 10 brexit disasters for the UK.

Oh dear you are upset,me proven wrong? No that's you Gerry who only got halfway through the link and because it was from a German newspaper you knew you couldn't slag it off as an English rag,there are others but I suspect I'd be wasting my time because you only want to see it all as a disaster.....meanwhile Gerry we'll take the ups and downs just being happy to be gone whilst you simmer and marinate in your hatred of all things Brexit and the English.

[GerryT]

Must say reading this and the other immediate replies to posters you seem to be getting quite irate,is this because you realise your beloved eu has not only made a balls of this but has been seen to do so by its own citizens
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/fall-from-grace-merkel-s-conservatives-mired-in-scandal-and-incompetence-a-b3b33c92-9855-4a92-9e3f-f1f6667de531
What now Gerry no way to call this an English rag or call the BBC,what will you do now scuttle off as you usually do and say you're busy with work.

So that's a no then, you can't prove she's a liar, just checking and calling out your bullsh1t.
Then you throw up a link where I got half way through. The guts of it about irregular mask contracts but they sound in the half-penny place in comparison to the shenanigans in the UK regarding the same topic.

Your all emotion and no facts, simply put the UK is ahead of the game but only just and lets see in June where it all sits. The vaccine roll-out has been proven to have nothing to do with Brexit which I'm sure you agree but won't admit it as your sick of been proven wrong on here.

So where's that list of brexit success stories since leaving, give me 1, just 1, that would be great. If you do I'll give you 10 brexit disasters for the UK.

[cromwell]

I don't mind you calling her a liar if you have some evidence, the way I call Johnson a liar as he is and was found so in the courts. Lied to parliament and lied to the Queen, lied in his jobs when he was a journalist and got sacked, in fact he's made a career out of lying as the UK people love a liar. Give the liar the top job in the country and keep the liar there. He's teflon man the king career liar. So what's Von De Leyen lied about ? now, can you give some facts, not rag press or BBC 'truths', something thats factual for a change.
That's very interesting.

Must say reading this and the other immediate replies to posters you seem to be getting quite irate,is this because you realise your beloved eu has not only made a balls of this but has been seen to do so by its own citizens
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/fall-from-grace-merkel-s-conservatives-mired-in-scandal-and-incompetence-a-b3b33c92-9855-4a92-9e3f-f1f6667de531
What now Gerry no way to call this an English rag or call the BBC,what will you do now scuttle off as you usually do and say you're busy with work.

[GerryT]

You ask what's wrong with what you post,.then post this ......more rubbish.

It was Von Der Liar with her analogy that Thomas is describing in lumbering along so what are you on about?

I don't mind you calling her a liar if you have some evidence, the way I call Johnson a liar as he is and was found so in the courts. Lied to parliament and lied to the Queen, lied in his jobs when he was a journalist and got sacked, in fact he's made a career out of lying as the UK people love a liar. Give the liar the top job in the country and keep the liar there. He's teflon man the king career liar. So what's Von De Leyen lied about ? now, can you give some facts, not rag press or BBC 'truths', something thats factual for a change.

We understand you are bitter about Brexit but you need to get over it,we're happy so you'd be best reveling in your imagined eu nirvana patiently waiting on your web like some old spider for brexit to fail,trouble is when I go in my shed I find so many dusty torn webs and dead spiders becaused they expired and caught nowt.

That's very interesting.

[GerryT]

The people who had one jab all have appointments for 12 weeks, Gerry, so the number of vaccines required is known.
No appointments have been cancelled, yet, but I suppose it could happen.

The danger is because the UK hasn't stored the second Jab for these people that if AZ can't deliver then not everyone will get the second jab within the 12 weeks, that might be fine or it could be a problem. Nobody knows as it wasn't clinically trialled, another UK gamble.

AZ I think are now manufacturing in Asia under license, so maybe the timing will work, time will tell. But what we do know is AZ have big problems delivering to other parties, the EU being a big problem. If the EU does force their demand for AZ to meet the agreed delivery schedule of vaccines to the EU, from the two UK manufacturing sites in the UK and the others in the EU, this could be a very bug problem for the UK. The fact is 10m EU manufactured doses went to the UK and used in those 25m people, will another 10m be delivered to the UK to give those people their second jabs ?  well I very much doubt it the way the EU are looking at it. Maybe the EU will block vaccine deliveries to the UK, but remember the EU is shipping to other countries and will continue to do so. It's only countries that manufacture and won't ship to other countries, such as the UK that are being caught in the cross hairs.

There's a strong feeling of vaccine nationalism coming out of the UK, the refusal to call it the AZ vaccine when they manufacture it, the sense that anything AZ makes is just for the UK when that's not the contracts AZ signed up to.

A first world problem when privileged countries argue over vaccine supplies when we are way ahead of 3rd world countries, sad really.

[GerryT]

People like the zany illiberal forum members like quack quack often post on this forum over the last year talking about selfish conspiracy theorist nutters holding back the fight against coronavirus.

Whats noticeable though is how silent our pro european friends like quackers are over people like emmanuel macron , merkel and many other european leaders who have done more damage to the fight against covid 19 than all the illegal ravers and social media "selfish nutters" quckers goes on about put together as the guy in the video says.

I had to stop listening to his sh1t but got the jist of what he was spewing about. The propaganda twisting is unreal. In vert simple terms.
AZ drug was not tested on over 70's -
The UK say agh it will be grand, people don't really matter lets see how it goes,
Each EU country decides for themselves, some use it on only under 55, some use it for all people
UK pump it into 25million people and all looks good, some EU countries use that as a green light for older people
A little bump and a threat that it could cause blood cloths 6 days later the EMA say they can see no link
THIS DOES NOT SAY THAT THERE IS NO LINK BUT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS A LINK
EU countries will independently decide what to do.

The video gets the time lines all wrong and twists the facts. Yes some EU countries decided not to give AZ to those age groups that weren't tested, some Macron & Merkel were logically to say we won't be using it. 25million brit's later and no side affects so countries are saying based on that we will use it. But the EMA wasn't saying there isn't a link so still some countries will not use it. It's all very logical and understandable. But if you listen to how it's twisted in that rag video and that's all you listened to then you get the average british opinion...UK great EU bad.

[cromwell]

Well lets look at it, the UK death's near the top end of the table worldwide and about twice the rate of of your Neighbouring Island, your PPE scandals and accusations of contracts going to MP buddies, your failed response to the outbreak initially. I remember the laughs from UK people at IRL locking down quickly and then we saw what happened. Now we see the UK hoarding vaccines for themselves, breaking from science and ploughing on with a single dose philosophy so they can crow about numbers, very infantile. Yep the EU looks bad 

What would other EU countries do and that included the UK as a defacto EU member at the time ? No country was prepared for this.

If a drug company can't manufacture and deliver to the schedule it agreed then yes it's deliveries will be less and in these circumstances thats fully understandable. What's not understandable is a company fulfilling one order 100% and the other at 30%, especially when in the EU contract it specifically mentions 2 of the UK AZ companies as one's that would ship to the EU. If AZ had reduced deliveries to both the UK and EU by the same percent that would have made sense. Maybe the exceptionalism UK view on the world wouldn't agree, and I guess it wouldn't but with time those opinions will change. But if you think it's a great think to prevent vaccine deliveries to the EU from the UK then you should have no problem with it happening the other way.

Here's the great BBC explaining that AZ UK are contractually committed to delivering from the UK to the EU, this is not happening.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55862233

Hang on a min. there was a legitimate concern over the AZ drug, within 6 days the EU examined the claim and confirmed it was good to use. That's not rubbishing the AZ vaccine. My Daughter got the AZ vaccine a couple of weeks ago and that's great news.
And it's only in the UK that the vaccine roll-out are a result of Brexit.  The UK haven't yet approved the Janssen vaccine, the EU has, so yes the lumbering EU is ahead on that stat.
On the Pfizer jab the EU approved it 21 Dec, the UK on 2nd Dec. On the Moderna jab the EU approved it 6th Jan the UK 7th Jan and AZ the EU approved it 29th Jan and the UK 30th Dec. There's a couple of weeks in the difference on two and the EU is ahead on two. Not Lumbering.

Most EU countries are storing the second Jab to give it when needed. The UK is NOT doing this, everything the UK gets is being administered. What if supply drops and people in the UK can't get their second jab, gamble gamble gamble by the UK Govt. Other EU countries could boast about their numbers by not being prepared for second doses, but it's not a risk they are willing to take. Especially now that we see AZ is very dodgy with their deliveries and contract obligations.

You ask what's wrong with what you post,.then post this ......more rubbish.

It was Von Der Liar with her analogy that Thomas is describing in lumbering along so what are you on about?

We understand you are bitter about Brexit but you need to get over it,we're happy so you'd be best reveling in your imagined eu nirvana patiently waiting on your web like some old spider for brexit to fail,trouble is when I go in my shed I find so many dusty torn webs and dead spiders becaused they expired and caught nowt.

[GerryT]

Gerry , your posts sadly read as nothing more than desperate muck raking and puerile attempts at deflecting from the richly deserved criticism of the eu over covid 19.

Im not a brexiter , nor english , nor any of the other labels you regularly toss about . The fact of the matter is , on the ground , while covid 19 has been a disaster for all governments including scottish irish british and wordwide , and extremely difficult to deal with , the eu has come out of this pandemic looking particularly poor , and most of it is all of their own making.

Well lets look at it, the UK death's near the top end of the table worldwide and about twice the rate of of your Neighbouring Island, your PPE scandals and accusations of contracts going to MP buddies, your failed response to the outbreak initially. I remember the laughs from UK people at IRL locking down quickly and then we saw what happened. Now we see the UK hoarding vaccines for themselves, breaking from science and ploughing on with a single dose philosophy so they can crow about numbers, very infantile. Yep the EU looks bad 

Last march at the beginning of this crises , we witnessed the desperate calls from the italians , at first going largely ignored , to the european countires especially the germans asking for help and talking about where is the eu solidarity between member nations?

Thats was the first pr disaster for the bloc.

Then on the issue of vaccines , we had the eu trying to look united and calling for vaccine roll out as one european union. The second pr disaster when it all went tits up and the bloc looked like one slow lumbering elephant falling far behind the uk and others.

Then , again trying to save face  , they about turned once more and started trying to pass the buck , as you have done , over to individual member nations saying it was up to them , and laying blame at drug companies feet , in some puerile attempt at deflection.

What would other EU countries do and that included the UK as a defacto EU member at the time ? No country was prepared for this.

If a drug company can't manufacture and deliver to the schedule it agreed then yes it's deliveries will be less and in these circumstances thats fully understandable. What's not understandable is a company fulfilling one order 100% and the other at 30%, especially when in the EU contract it specifically mentions 2 of the UK AZ companies as one's that would ship to the EU. If AZ had reduced deliveries to both the UK and EU by the same percent that would have made sense. Maybe the exceptionalism UK view on the world wouldn't agree, and I guess it wouldn't but with time those opinions will change. But if you think it's a great think to prevent vaccine deliveries to the EU from the UK then you should have no problem with it happening the other way.

Here's the great BBC explaining that AZ UK are contractually committed to delivering from the UK to the EU, this is not happening.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55862233

All in all its a very poor look , inaction , then re action , twists and turns and blame game over extremely poor decisions , espcially the rubbishing of the oxford vaccine.

As i said , once more , brexiters have the moral high ground and their decision to leave the lumbering block is looking vindicated.

Hang on a min. there was a legitimate concern over the AZ drug, within 6 days the EU examined the claim and confirmed it was good to use. That's not rubbishing the AZ vaccine. My Daughter got the AZ vaccine a couple of weeks ago and that's great news.
And it's only in the UK that the vaccine roll-out are a result of Brexit.  The UK haven't yet approved the Janssen vaccine, the EU has, so yes the lumbering EU is ahead on that stat.
On the Pfizer jab the EU approved it 21 Dec, the UK on 2nd Dec. On the Moderna jab the EU approved it 6th Jan the UK 7th Jan and AZ the EU approved it 29th Jan and the UK 30th Dec. There's a couple of weeks in the difference on two and the EU is ahead on two. Not Lumbering.

Most EU countries are storing the second Jab to give it when needed. The UK is NOT doing this, everything the UK gets is being administered. What if supply drops and people in the UK can't get their second jab, gamble gamble gamble by the UK Govt. Other EU countries could boast about their numbers by not being prepared for second doses, but it's not a risk they are willing to take. Especially now that we see AZ is very dodgy with their deliveries and contract obligations.

[GerryT]

Why do you keep posting this rubbish?

Whats factually wrong with what I posted ?

[GerryT]

You are a good lad Gerry and one day we will all club together and buy you an atlas so that you know where Ireland actually is. You should not spend your whole life not knowing that there is a world outside Catford.

That said, you are wrong, Tommy is right and the only worry is that so many Brits are satisfied with the government. Brits are never satisfied with anything the government does. That is why we grow empires and the Micks just grow spuds.

Yep that's what you do, and it's sure looking like your building a new empire, a little one, on an Island, off the coast of the mainland. Just like Ireland, you'll see that on your atlas.

[GerryT]

No matter how you try and fail to spin things , its quite clear across europe the vaccine roll out has been a pr disaster for the eu and many respective national governments , while the uk government has come out looking on the ball.

On top of that , not only are the eu receving the lions share of the blame for the poor vaccination roll out , but despite the desperate attempt by the eu to blame manufactureres not meeting demand , big pharma arent getting any flak from eu citizens ...

Quote
Despite the explosive fight between the European Commission and AstraZeneca over the drug company's inability to fulfill its contract to supply vaccines, pharma companies seem to have so far received less flak from citizens. In both France and Germany, net support for the pharmaceutical industry was higher in February than it was in September, though it dropped significantly from 60 percent support to 34 percent net support in Sweden in the same period. In the U.K., net support rose from 51 percent to 78 percent between September and February.

all in all , i would say yet again to remoaners like yourself gerry , its a big job well done once more. The eu , and thier lickspittle supporters , are doing brexiters work for them once again.

The decision to leave the eu has once more been vindicated in many peoples eyes from what i can see.

A PR disaster ?  who cares about PR
The decision to leave had nothing to do with the vaccine roll-out and well you know it.
People may be happy with the pharma industry, that's doesn't translate into EU citizens being happy with AZ filling the UK order 100% and the EU by 30%. These facts are coming out and people will see whats going on.
I don't know what else you expect EU Govt's to do, orders are placed and vaccines are being delivered and implemented. The only disaster as you like to label it is the lack of pharma companies keeping to their promised delivery schedule
But the EU will help, so if AZ wants to keep 100% of their UK manufactured vaccines for the UK then the EU will help AZ keep 100% of their EU manufactured vaccines for the EU. Seems fair wouldn't you think ?
It's a proposal and each EU country will decide if this is what the EU will do, one country one vote, the democratic way.