So Ner!

[GerryT]

Not sure I can be bothered Gerry,I suspect you know sod all about her or ignore the unpalatable
Her time as defence minister was surrounded by controversy,leaving the Bundeswehr in a shambolic state and talk of corruption,she was also looked at regarding her degree and plagiarism,there stuff in the British newspapers but you're not interested and this.

Lets get this straight, you call her a liar because A.) you don't think she did a good job as defence minister and b.) you think she copied text in her doctorate hahahaha. Well she was cleared of that serious serious charge, even by your BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35769001
Is that it, that's the sum total for your reason to call her a liar ? there must be more ? hahhahahaha, keep it coming, this stuff is great.

In the words of Bild's Peter Tiede: "Von der Leyen has either knowingly lied to 447 million Europeans, or didn't know what she was talking about."

Another gem, just when I thought you were giving up on the lying nonsense you come out with this beauty, come on, give us a link so I can go laugh at the reality behind the click bait.

Please yourself Gerry I'm losing interest in talking to you.

Of course you are, you ran down a rabbit hole and know your wrong. I'll stop asking for proof as you can't supply it and maybe you'll refrain from calling the woman a liar, unlike of course you want to talk about the Liar Johnson, shall we ?

[cromwell]

Great so you agree, we park the personal stuff.

Where's that proof that Von Der Leyen is a Liar ?
Where's the example of the great brexit win ?

Not sure I can be bothered Gerry,I suspect you know sod all about her or ignore the unpalatable

Her time as defence minister was surrounded by controversy,leaving the Bundeswehr in a shambolic state and talk of corruption,she was also looked at regarding her degree and plagiarism,there stuff in the British newspapers but you're not interested and this.

In the words of Bild's Peter Tiede: "Von der Leyen has either knowingly lied to 447 million Europeans, or didn't know what she was talking about."

Please yourself Gerry I'm losing interest in talking to you.

[GerryT]

erhaps if the blatant lie — that the UK's success in vaccine procurement was due to it's exit from the EU — hadn't been crowed about so loudly, the UK wouldn't be facing the potential vaccine shortages in the antagonistic and unhelpful environment it does now...

Good observation but thinking about it I doubt it. The EU's primary beef is with AZ and it's going to go after them for what AZ promised. That's a greater share of the vaccines it is producing. Here's the crux, AZ has over promised we know to the EU and UK as it can't satisfy both orders, the UK has had the position to have it's delivery schedule met 100% but even the UK govt have said April doesn't look so good. The Eu on the other hand is only seeing 30% of it's schedule.

So what's to happen because the solution for the EU causes a problem for the UK. I'm sure the rabid brexiteers on here will see that as the EU punishing the UK but does the EU care, not really. More importantly the EU has said it will look after it's citizens first, in other words the EU see's itself as having zero obligation to UK citizens and won't be treating the UK as anything other than another 3rd country and the UK shouldn't expect any other form of treatment.

But it's all just talk until the EU decides to take action and we will have to see if that happens.

[GerryT]

Really Gerry....really?,this is from the man who stated I was on a triple lock pension with nothing better to do than support brexit whilst jumping up and down.
As it happens gerry i still work and you'd be better reading a few of your own posts before accusing others of being personal.

Great so you agree, we park the personal stuff.

Where's that proof that Von Der Leyen is a Liar ?
Where's the example of the great brexit win ?

[cromwell]

There we go with personal comments, you just can't debate the points. Is it because you can't back up your opinion.

Really Gerry....really?,this is from the man who stated I was on a triple lock pension with nothing better to do than support brexit whilst jumping up and down.
As it happens gerry i still work and you'd be better reading a few of your own posts before accusing others of being personal.

[patman post]

It shows a lot of people are not happy in the eu with the eu

The UK has fallen five places on a global list ranking countries by happiness, as the nation grapples with the mental health ramifications of the coronavirus pandemic. 
While the annual World Happiness Report found no overall global decline in people's perceptions of their wellbeing, the UK experienced one of the larger drops in happiness compared to before the pandemic. 
The UK fell to 18th place in the global list – behind Finland, the US and New Zealand among others – and experienced one of the larger drops in happiness compared to before the pandemic. 
 
https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/uk-falls-happiness-rankings-mental-health-covid-casualty-110936978.html 

Violent demonstrations about the way the authorities are handling the pandemic and new proposals for dealing with such demos, certainly show the country's not happy.

Perhaps if the blatant lie — that the UK's success in vaccine procurement was due to it's exit from the EU — hadn't been crowed about so loudly, the UK wouldn't be facing the potential vaccine shortages in the antagonistic and unhelpful environment it does now...

[GerryT]

It shows a lot of people are not happy in the eu with the eu

Who said everyone in the EU is in bliss with the EU, nobody !  in summary you thought the vaccine rollout was a great achievement as a result of brexit> I pointed out it was a gamble by the UK that has paid off...so far...but the UK could and probably would have done this even if it were a full EU member. The UK has a list as long as your arm of not doing what the EU does, the Euro, Schengen, part opt-out on the EU charter for human rights and in the area of freedom/security & justice the UK had many opt-outs.  In fact the UK was a member when all this happened, how you thought it was a great Brexit win when it's nothing of the sort. So yes the UK is ahead on vaccine roll out, no the EU isn't crying and up in arms about how we can't be the same as the UK.

Bloody hell! aren't we? Blimey gerry you should've been a sleuth who'd have known that?

You left out the other half of the sentence, are you a reporter for the mail or something ?  The original was "your no longer in the EU and the UK is now a rule taker" maybe that went over your head, in the good old days the UK would just break agreements and happy days, but the reality is your not the big boy in the school yard any more so you can't just sail into the sunset after breaking agreements as you are. AZ signed a contract with the EU to supply from UK manufacturing sites, thats an issue between the EU and AZ, which is going to get resolved.

I'm not I'm quite happy it's you that seem to be on a trampoline

There we go with personal comments, you just can't debate the points. Is it because you can't back up your opinion.

Well you obviously do because you keep going on about it.

Once you know it's made up propaganda.

[GerryT]

I might not necessarily agree with everything you say but as someone who myself often feels like a lone lefty in a den of right wingers (an exageration since HDQQ is also on the reasonable wing) I admire you for coming here making the case for the EU amongst this den of Brexiteers. As long as this forum has posters like you then the standard assumptions will always be challenged and we will have a debate. Some - like B-4 - just want a right wing echo chamber but that would be very dull.

No point in having a debate if everyone agrees  !  it's been a simple scapegoat to blame the EU for most ill's in the UK for decades, that can't or shouldn't happen anymore as the UK can do as it pleases but I think it will. I'll try put a different perspective on things here 
Being Irish and living in Ireland I'm neither a leaver or remainer but would have preferred the UK to have remained. "Together we are stronger" would be my view but leave was the decision and that's fine. The big issue I have is the manner in which the UK is choosing to leave, it's doing great self harm and also harm to the EU, if there were benefits maybe it's worth it. So I wait and wait to see what those benefits are, none so far or none that anyone has outlined, apart from a peculiar view of sovereignty, a view that a country in this modern world can have zero obligations to other countries and can do as it pleases.

[cromwell]

And what does all that show, nothing.

It shows a lot of people are not happy in the eu with the eu

your no longer in the EU

Bloody hell! aren't we? Blimey gerry you should've been a sleuth who'd have known that?

You can jump up and down

I'm not I'm quite happy it's you that seem to be on a trampoline

your rag press can write what it wants, but outside the UK nobody and thats nobody cares about what UK rag press writes.

Well you obviously do because you keep going on about it.

[srb7677]

Yep well informed punters there.
only a fraction of 400,000 gowns ordered from a Turkish t-shirt manufacturer arrived and when they did, they were found to be unusable.
Fifty million face masks, purchased through a company specialising in currency trading and offshore property, part of a £252 million contract, were also unusable.
A Miami jewellery designer, awarded a £250 million contract for PPE, was found to have paid £21 million to a consultant to broker the deal.
A pest control company with net assets of £19,000 was given a £108 million contract for PPE.
Then there have been other concerns, including the use of "VIP lanes" allowing some providers direct access to government, and the role of what has been termed the "chumocracy," whereby those with political connections seemed especially privileged.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/02/23/the-uks-ppe-procurement-scandal-reminds-us-why-we-need-ways-to-hold-ministers-to-account/

This will get a closer look I guess in time, but I'm sure Johnson and his buddies will do their best to block it as the suggestion is these contracts for large sums were given with zero public procurement process and zero scrutiny and the real people behing these contracts are, as they say buddies of Boris. Is this the great brexit win your talking about.

I might not necessarily agree with everything you say but as someone who myself often feels like a lone lefty in a den of right wingers (an exageration since HDQQ is also on the reasonable wing) I admire you for coming here making the case for the EU amongst this den of Brexiteers. As long as this forum has posters like you then the standard assumptions will always be challenged and we will have a debate. Some - like B-4 - just want a right wing echo chamber but that would be very dull.

[GerryT]

Yep well informed punters there.
only a fraction of 400,000 gowns ordered from a Turkish t-shirt manufacturer arrived and when they did, they were found to be unusable.
Fifty million face masks, purchased through a company specialising in currency trading and offshore property, part of a £252 million contract, were also unusable.
A Miami jewellery designer, awarded a £250 million contract for PPE, was found to have paid £21 million to a consultant to broker the deal.
A pest control company with net assets of £19,000 was given a £108 million contract for PPE.
Then there have been other concerns, including the use of "VIP lanes" allowing some providers direct access to government, and the role of what has been termed the "chumocracy," whereby those with political connections seemed especially privileged.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/02/23/the-uks-ppe-procurement-scandal-reminds-us-why-we-need-ways-to-hold-ministers-to-account/

This will get a closer look I guess in time, but I'm sure Johnson and his buddies will do their best to block it as the suggestion is these contracts for large sums were given with zero public procurement process and zero scrutiny and the real people behing these contracts are, as they say buddies of Boris. Is this the great brexit win your talking about.

[GerryT]

You sat on this forum and our old one for a year telling us how the uk had left the eu on 31/01/2020 and when i replied the uk hadnet fully left , it was in transition and remained a de facto member  , you argued the opposite , and now when the arugment suits , you try and spin it the other way.



Pathetic gerry .

No I didn't, your taking after Boris the liar. The UK left as a member 2020, and remained a defacto member in all but voting rights until your glorious leader signed what he hailed as the greatest trade agreement and UK PM, in fact any PM ever in the history of PM'ing of any country or planet, and that includes his glorious NI protocol that the committed the UK to. Go back and read.

You remind me of an old forum member on the old forum from years ago , a pro european tony blair worshipper and out and out blairite who stood alone trying to defend blair for years , long after jug ears had left power and new labour had been booted out , until finally it sank in his hero was no more and his new labour project nothing more than broken ruins.

Here you are again , as i told you before and borkie often points out a so called irishman who come on a uk political forum and spends evry waking moment of his time talking about the eu and defending the commission with barely a single reference to irish politcs except where it involves brexit or the eu has us all in stitches.

You have been beaten gerry , brexiters have won , and continue to win , not only that covid has stolen the wind from your sails  , with any potential economic downsides to brexit being washed away by covid 19 economic damage , and now the uk is running rings around the eu in terms of public approval and perception over vaccines , as the eu stumble from one crises to the next.

If that's what you call winning then that's the sort of winning you can have all day. Breaking international law twice and legal action coming your way from your largest trading partner. Portions of your industry in tatters, financial services hanging on. You have nothing and that's absolutely nothing to shout about regarding brexit, zero, zippo. The only thing you can shout about is that you have 3% of your country fully vaccinated and lots of people running around half vaccinated. That's it, as you yourself say its absolutely nothing to do with brexit, but it's all the UK has to shout about and point fingers (while you hoard vaccines), nothing to do with Brexit. But then that's in line with the UK's new global approach as it cuts it's foreign aid budget by over 20%.

[GerryT]

Who cares about PR?
What ! Political organisations which rely on the public approval and votes now doesnt care about PR?
Stop talking out your backside gerry. The EU and of course most governments i can think of have been trying desperately to media manage this whole covid 19 pandemic since day one because they care deeply about public approval.
In the eu case especially , they have been desperate to try and shift the blame for their terrible vaccine roll out onto drug companies and national governments in a desperate bid to shift public anger away from brussells.

I should have expanded, nobody cares about what the UK rag press writes and how the UK in general see things. It doesn't matter, the UK may say the EU roll out is the fault of Brussels, but nobody outside the UK is listening. The EU has been let down by AZ, fact. AZ have met so far 100% of the UK scheduled deliveries and 30% of the EU's, while AZ ships from the EU to the UK. The EU contract say's AZ will ship from 2 sites in the UK, thats not happening and the EU will take action. It's very simple.

I didnt say it did.

The terrible way the eu has handled covid from the start , from abandoning the italians at day one , to trying to act as one lumbering behemoth with vaccinations and failing badly , to now running around like headless chickens blaming all and sundry has been a disaster for pro europeans and completely vindicated brexiters as i earlier said.

We see it on political forums ,across the news and media and social media , where pro europeans are either completely silent or hanging their heads in shame and dissapointment at the behaviour of the eu while brexiters are shaking their heads and saying told you so.

As cromwell and i have pointed out , both polling and european news and media sources are showing vast anger and dissapointment over the eu handling of this whole affair.

So no one wants to hear your bleating excuses about eu failure. After brussells blundering from one catastrophe to the next , the latest threat from them to withhold vaccines is only going to play yet again into the arms of brexiters , and turn even more people against your beloved eu.

Well I hope for the UK sake that there isn't a move in France/Germany/Italy to become like the UK and go vaccine nationalistic. Because if they do get as you say angry then the only outcome will be for those countries to call for the stopping of vaccine shipments from the EU in total.

The UK has been a disaster dealing with covid up to the vaccine roll out, one of the worst on the planet. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. But your vaccine rollout "success" could be very short lived, two possible problems.
- First AZ vaccine is very little help against the south africal strain. If that get's hold in the UK then all those 25m people will require a different vaccine, this will put the UK back in the starting position.
- Second AZ have a problem with the EU and will only get resolved with more vaccines going to the EU, thats going to happen one way or another. So those 10m vaccines (out of your 25m) could possibly and quickly stop. Now because the UK took the very very reckless approach of administering all the vaccines and not holding back any for the 2nd jab (as most EU countries have done) then there is the very distinct possibility that people won't get their second jab on time. Nobody knows the outcome of that, but I'm sure your proven guilty lying politicians will tell you its perfectly ok to wait 6mths for the second jab or to take the Pfizer shot as the second jab, even though there has been no clinical trials to show thats the case.

Like I said, this is only the start of things, wait until June or July before proclaiming the UK as the greatest country in the whole world, your doing a victory salute just as you leave the starting blocks, its humiliating for the UK. Your at about 3% fully vaccinated, rein in the "we are great".

[GerryT]

Oh well just in case you do pop back Gerry
So there you go Gerry not an Englishrag for you to choke over,in fact the last reference from an Irish newspaper who don't seem to share your enthusiasm for all things eu.

And what does all that show, nothing. Simple facts. The UK is blocking the shipments of Vaccines out of the UK. The EU has sent over 40m vaccines out of the EU. The EU is considering blocking vaccines to countries that shamelessly partake in the activity that the UK is doing, there are those that think the EU shouldn't react like that. There are also those that don't even know what's going on. Does it matter, not 1 jot, fact is if the EU decide to give the UK what its doint then there's nothing the UK will do about it. Get used to it Cromwell, your no longer in the EU and the UK is now a rule taker. You can jump up and down and your rag press can write what it wants, but outside the UK nobody and thats nobody cares about what UK rag press writes.

[Thomas]

your PPE scandals and accusations of contracts going to MP buddies,

Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
How well do you rate the government's performance at providing NHS staff with PPE?

Good: 45%
Bad: 32%

Don't Know: 21%

Via @theipaper
/ @RedfieldWilton