So Ner!

[Nick]

countries that manufacture should be sharing with countries that dont have the ability. Thats what the EU is doing.

Funnily enough, there is a country that has loads of fishing grounds and is trying to share the catch with those that don't. Strangely enough the EU isn't too keen on that.

Let's see how you EU lot beg when we turn off the Yorkshire batter!!

[cromwell]

Mod Notice
If people have others on ignore please do that,if you have issues with another poster try settling it by pm and leave the threads out of it
Thanks

[srb7677]

Now thomas you go too far. I'm Irish, I live in Dublin and have only ever had 1 account on this site and one user name. Making up stuff, threatening people ? hounding souls ?, just makes you look desperate.

Again have you any proof of what your saying ?

That's what he does. Invents lies and makes false allegations. Not to mention wilful pejorative misinterpretations. And don't expect him to supply any evidence for his bullshit. He never does. Because he can't.

It is why I have him on ignore. I only ever see his bollocks when someone quotes it.

[Barry]

AZ being basically a sh1t company

I don't really subscribe to that notion, as their inhalers have prevented both myself and my wife dying of asthma attacks.

[GerryT]

Interesting that you fail to mention the UK entering into a binding legal agreement to fund development and supply in MAY which was agreed to be a gamble if it did not work, but a gamble that had to be taken.
In short, the UK chose to fund development and signed a binding deal to fund that months before the EU committed to spending money

The EU also gambled, it put in €336m of which €223m was given at the start of Sept, long before the vaccine was developed. The UK as you say put in €76m (£65m), considerably less than the EU it would seem.
https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/uk-covid-19-vaccine-funding/

Now did you not read the above, the EU entered into a contract with AZ BEFORE the UK, thats right BEFORE the UK, BEFORE and not months after. In reality that's irrelevant, what matters is the contract.

The USA gave AZ $1b last May for vaccine development. So should all vaccines go to the USA ? or maybe the vaccines should be distributed as per the contracts, which the EU got there ahead of the UK.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/coronavirus-us-gives-astrazenena-1-billion-for-oxford-vaccine.html

[johnofgwent]

I've managed to get a copy of the UK contract and I've looked at both the UK and EU one. So some FACTS.

The EU contracted AZ BEFORE the UK did for vaccine supply, 27th Aug v 28th Aug but it's before. If people felt that the UK getting to contract first meant they had rights to the vaccine, as mentioned earlier in the thread, well that's blown out of the water.

The EU and UK use the clause "best reasonable efforts" which both contracts define in near exactly the same wording, for the manufacturing and timely delivery of the vaccine. So that blows the false idea that the UK contract had some clause saying the UK had exclusive rights until it's contract was filled, guess what, yep that's blown out of the water too.

Both get the vaccine at cost, there was some weird comment about profits being linked to contract obligations, which is crud but lets put that notion in the crapper also.

The UK contract doesn't mention any upfront payment but the EU did give 336m of which 223m was paid 5days after signing the contract, for the R&D development, setup of manufacturing so as the EU would get timely delivery. This is in the contract and will have a bearing. Funny the UK left that out.

The EU contract specifically mentions UK manufacturing as a source of supply to the EU and also includes all AZ affiliate manufacturing facilities. That's not happening, tut tut AZ. The UK only mentions affiliate and doesn't specifically mention the EU. Not that that's really important but it does show that the UK thinking it doesn't have to ship to the EU who contracted AZ first would be wrong

The linked article is interesting but fails to recognise that as AZ are completing one order (the UK) 100% and the EU order 30%, that doesn't in any way meet what's defined as "reasonable efforts" in the contract. There's an assumption that UK law is "better" in this instance, but UK law isn't a party to the EU contract and that's all that matters in the EU contract.

Finally the UK currently bans over 170 medicines for export globally of which over 100 could be used to treat c19 patients and manufacture vaccines. It's hard to figure out how the UK, UK politicians, reporters, TV commentators that haven't called out this totally hypocritical position of showing any form of opposition to the EU considering barring vaccine deliveries to pretty much just the UK. The EU will have a list of 1 vaccine that's restricted for movement to 1 country while the UK has over 179 med's that's are used in part for vaccine manufacture barred from export to every country on the globe. It's really laughable.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/

Interesting that you fail to mention the UK entering into a binding legal agreement to fund development and supply in MAY which was agreed to be a gamble if it did not work, but a gamble that had to be taken.


In short, the UK chose to fund development and signed a binding deal to fund that months before the EU committed to spending money

[DeppityDawg]

Don't get a big head, I'm interested in the issue with AZ+EU and the additional deaths caused by AZ being basically a sh1t company with zero ability to meet agreements. I gather they will soon mess up their UK deliveries soon, bound to happen with this shoddy lot.

Do you reckon Somewhat Cloudy has a chance at Tipperary tomorrow?

[GerryT]

Fantastic stuff here guys. Since Shamus was last on, not only has he managed to find both AZ contracts with the UK and the EU, each of which is about 60 pages of legalities (a lot of which is redacted in both), he's managed to read and digest them both fully to legal standards. All this of course, while running his own business exporting to countries he fecking hates (that narrows it down a bit then  ) and posting on an internet forum at the same time. The only things missing are a unicycle, a high wire and a clowns hat

And all this from someone who isn't even interested in the "yookay". I'll tell you whats laughable Gerry. You fecking are.

Don't get a big head, I'm interested in the issue with AZ+EU and the additional deaths caused by AZ being basically a sh1t company with zero ability to meet agreements. I gather they will soon mess up their UK deliveries soon, bound to happen with this shoddy lot.

I've linked the two contracts below, their easy to read, not much legal eagle phrasing. I'll list the relevant clauses for you if I get a chance but a 20min look and you'll find them. In PDF do Ctrl-F and you can search for words which speeds things up.

[GerryT]

Well, over the time I have been here you have indicated that you are an electrician, plumber and a lecturer in law at Dublin University. Yet you don't appear to have heard of any of the main newspapers in Ireland and have almost no idea of Irish politics.

This is cyber space Gerry and nothing really matters here, but you really do need to work on your backstory.    

I'd love to see you quote that. I said I was an electrician after which I did a business mgt degree and now run my own small business. Where you got plumber & lecturer from, prob pulled that out of your ass. There is no such thing as Dublin University, only a foreigner would call it that. Why would you think I don't know Irish newspapers, agh I see, a strawman, lash out a false claim and then debate it, good one.

Even if I was from the UK who cares, its the points I make not the location, colour of skin or sex makes any difference. Why haven't you called me a woman, you may as well. You might not believe me when I give the little personal info out but you can't ignore the facts that I post. You could go trump with alternative facts but their just a waste of time.

[DeppityDawg]

Fantastic stuff here guys. Since Shamus was last on, not only has he managed to find both AZ contracts with the UK and the EU, each of which is about 60 pages of legalities (a lot of which is redacted in both), he's managed to read and digest them both fully to legal standards. All this of course, while running his own business exporting to countries he fecking hates (that narrows it down a bit then  ) and posting on an internet forum at the same time. The only things missing are a unicycle, a high wire and a clowns hat

And all this from someone who isn't even interested in the "yookay". I'll tell you whats laughable Gerry. You fecking are.

[GerryT]

Here's an interesting claim.
English law used by the UK is actually better at getting results than Belgian law.
Seems leaving the EU was a good idea after all

I've managed to get a copy of the UK contract and I've looked at both the UK and EU one. So some FACTS.

The EU contracted AZ BEFORE the UK did for vaccine supply, 27th Aug v 28th Aug but it's before. If people felt that the UK getting to contract first meant they had rights to the vaccine, as mentioned earlier in the thread, well that's blown out of the water.

The EU and UK use the clause "best reasonable efforts" which both contracts define in near exactly the same wording, for the manufacturing and timely delivery of the vaccine. So that blows the false idea that the UK contract had some clause saying the UK had exclusive rights until it's contract was filled, guess what, yep that's blown out of the water too.

Both get the vaccine at cost, there was some weird comment about profits being linked to contract obligations, which is crud but lets put that notion in the crapper also.

The UK contract doesn't mention any upfront payment but the EU did give 336m of which 223m was paid 5days after signing the contract, for the R&D development, setup of manufacturing so as the EU would get timely delivery. This is in the contract and will have a bearing. Funny the UK left that out.

The EU contract specifically mentions UK manufacturing as a source of supply to the EU and also includes all AZ affiliate manufacturing facilities. That's not happening, tut tut AZ. The UK only mentions affiliate and doesn't specifically mention the EU. Not that that's really important but it does show that the UK thinking it doesn't have to ship to the EU who contracted AZ first would be wrong

The linked article is interesting but fails to recognise that as AZ are completing one order (the UK) 100% and the EU order 30%, that doesn't in any way meet what's defined as "reasonable efforts" in the contract. There's an assumption that UK law is "better" in this instance, but UK law isn't a party to the EU contract and that's all that matters in the EU contract.

Finally the UK currently bans over 170 medicines for export globally of which over 100 could be used to treat c19 patients and manufacture vaccines. It's hard to figure out how the UK, UK politicians, reporters, TV commentators that haven't called out this totally hypocritical position of showing any form of opposition to the EU considering barring vaccine deliveries to pretty much just the UK. The EU will have a list of 1 vaccine that's restricted for movement to 1 country while the UK has over 179 med's that's are used in part for vaccine manufacture barred from export to every country on the globe. It's really laughable.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-export-boris-johnson/

[Borchester]

Now thomas you go too far. I'm Irish, I live in Dublin and have only ever had 1 account on this site and one user name. Making up stuff, threatening people ? hounding souls ?, just makes you look desperate.

Again have you any proof of what your saying ?

Well, over the time I have been here you have indicated that you are an electrician, plumber and a lecturer in law at Dublin University. Yet you don't appear to have heard of any of the main newspapers in Ireland and have almost no idea of Irish politics.

This is cyber space Gerry and nothing really matters here, but you really do need to work on your backstory. 

[GerryT]

Ohhh look at that steve has a "new " friend to hold his hand on this nasty forum where no one likes his beloved labour party.

In desperation for a "new " friend , he is now in bed with a neo liberal blairite tony blair worshipper pretending to be a paddy from dublin , who has had more online
pseudonyms and nationalities than i have had hot feckin dinners.

You know why that is steve? Due to his history on this forum past and present of upsetting people , sending pms in the early hours of the morning threating members as well as hounding sensitive souls like yourself off the forum in times gones past.

My feck you are getting desperate.

Now thomas you go too far. I'm Irish, I live in Dublin and have only ever had 1 account on this site and one user name. Making up stuff, threatening people ? hounding souls ?, just makes you look desperate.

Again have you any proof of what your saying ?

[GerryT]

Must have been a crushing feckin blow to your "ego" when those well informed punters stuck two fingers up to your project fear and voted for brexit.

Haven't heard project fear getting a mention in a while. Can you list the things you said were project fear and we'll see how many turned into project truth.
How you would think a different country inflicting the greatest self harm on itself in the history of mankind would affect my ego is baffling.

Here gerry  , mozilla have been advertising about VPN`s , and how if your are a disgruntled blairite who can't get over the "well informed punters" voting for brexit , you can always set up a virtual private network to remain anonymous , pretend to be concerned paddy from dublin  , and spend every waking moment of your time bleating about brexit.

Yawn.

[srb7677]

About as right wing as Ken Clarke 

KenClarke was always a Tory,