Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threats to UK

[GerryT]

Deep stuff Gwen.

Now, back to the earlier question.

how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if the aforementioned country decides that it is going to ignore the EU?

I keep answering and you don't grasp it. Lets say Germany introduces new export requirements and then Germany breaks those requirements. Is that your question ?

[Borchester]

Because that country (pick any EU member) is the EU, and that country brought in this new regulation to allow them to ban exports if certain circumstances prevail. If they didn't agree then we wouldn't have the regulation. The way you talk it's as if member states are being controlled by a third party, why don't you get it that the member states are the EU and make these rules.

Look at it this way, all 27 member states agreed to centrally purchase vaccines, it turns out one of these companies, AZ, are only meeting 30% of their agreed commitment. It turns out the EU agreement with AZ has it that two plants in the UK are specifically mentioned as sites that would be shipping to the EU to meet the delivery schedule. That hasn't happened and AZ are blaming the UK Govt for that. Do you honestly think that any EU country would have an issue with putting export restrictions to the UK in that situation.
It also turns out the AZ CEO is lying and every time the lie is uncovered he changes the story. There really must be a back story to this which I am sure will come out with time. And it's not that the UK heavily invested in AZ as it's being pointed out that the USA gave $1b, the EU gave €336m and the UK gave £65.5m to help develop this vaccine and bolster manufacturing. It's something else and it's not in the UK contract, so why are AZ, a Swiss/UK company doing this ?

Deep stuff Gwen.

Now, back to the earlier question.

how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if the aforementioned country decides that it is going to ignore the EU?

[GerryT]

Incorrect.
The UK and the USA signed in May.
The EU signed in August.

Depends what you mean signed, as it's being said on here what matters is what's in the contract and the UK signed their contract 1 day after the EU in August. The UK didn't sign any contract for the supply of vaccines in May. I posted both contracts earlier on here, the dates are in black and white.

4 Eu members were expected to sign in May but pulled out to become part of the EU common vaccine arrangement instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine#Early_development

That's correct, to a point, the original purchase was 4 independent countries from the EU looking to do their own individual deals, they decided it would be better to do it together and that is the start of the EU purchase scheme.

[Baff]

The EU signed the contract with AZ before the UK did

Incorrect.
The UK and the USA signed in May.
The EU signed in August.

4 Eu members were expected to sign in May but pulled out to become part of the EU common vaccine arrangement instead.

An initially not-for-profit licencing agreement was signed between the University and AstraZeneca PLC, in May 2020, with 1 billion doses of potential supply secured, with the UK reserving access to the initial 100 million doses. Furthermore, the US reserved 300 million doses, as well as the authority to perform Phase III trials in the US. The collaboration was also granted £68m of UK government funding, and $1.2bn of US government funding, to support the development of the vaccine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford%E2%80%93AstraZeneca_COVID-19_vaccine#Early_development

[Sheepy]

Well there you are Geraldine. You certainly have the moral high ground on this one.

Still (and just so you can really rub our noses in it), how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if the country decide they are going to ignore the EU?

You have the floor and we are all ears.

Well, that is the trouble with you old dimwits as Gerry says, you have no idea how the EU works, you couldn't possibly work out it is a centralisation of power and money while hiding behind a cloak of democracy where no person it affects actually even get a say, even if they try you will be manipulated until you agree with everything the EU says and does, not like that has happened to Gerry of course.

[GerryT]

Well there you are Geraldine. You certainly have the moral high ground on this one.

Still (and just so you can really rub our noses in it), how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if the country decide they are going to ignore the EU?

You have the floor and we are all ears.

Because that country (pick any EU member) is the EU, and that country brought in this new regulation to allow them to ban exports if certain circumstances prevail. If they didn't agree then we wouldn't have the regulation. The way you talk it's as if member states are being controlled by a third party, why don't you get it that the member states are the EU and make these rules.

Look at it this way, all 27 member states agreed to centrally purchase vaccines, it turns out one of these companies, AZ, are only meeting 30% of their agreed commitment. It turns out the EU agreement with AZ has it that two plants in the UK are specifically mentioned as sites that would be shipping to the EU to meet the delivery schedule. That hasn't happened and AZ are blaming the UK Govt for that. Do you honestly think that any EU country would have an issue with putting export restrictions to the UK in that situation.
It also turns out the AZ CEO is lying and every time the lie is uncovered he changes the story. There really must be a back story to this which I am sure will come out with time. And it's not that the UK heavily invested in AZ as it's being pointed out that the USA gave $1b, the EU gave €336m and the UK gave £65.5m to help develop this vaccine and bolster manufacturing. It's something else and it's not in the UK contract, so why are AZ, a Swiss/UK company doing this ?

[GerryT]

"[HIGHLIGHT]like they normally do, which requires EU authorisation before a vaccine can be exported.[/HIGHLIGHT]"

Reply 40 tells us how the EU expects members to comply.

Your statement at the beginning of this thread stated quite clearly that the EU "Could stop any country" from exporting vaccines if it so wished.

You still haven't answered how the EU is going to STOP a member exporting vaccines if they ignore EU rule?

Because you don't know how the EU works. First the regulation is drafted and the terms of it is discussed by the council, these happen to be the leaders of each country. Together they agree the wording and this is then voted on by the EU parliament which brings into force the new rule/rules. So why would the EU need to force a country to carry out what that country has agreed to. Now in the case of the UK we all understand that they agree things and then don't follow through and implement the agreement, but all other EU countries will, no force required.  The rule is an EU country looking to export a vaccine must get approval from the EU, form ticking you might say but the goods stay in the EU until the form is ticked.

But you prefer to play the if my aunt had balls then she'd be my uncle. The enforcement of this would come from the member state itself, they agreed to this.

As it stands the EU has not restricted vaccines from being exported to the UK and as other companies are stepping up the pressure is off, but the damage is done and I can't see the EU looking at the UK and thinking, great neighbours. After being stabbed in the back they won't be so open the next time. Anyway this all started with AZ and with the press AZ is getting more and more people are reluctant to take the vaccine, while on the macro scale it makes perfect sense but tell that to the people that have died from taking it. When there is an alternative who would you opt for it.

[Borchester]

o, I think that Nick was waiting for an answer to his question which was...

" how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if they decide they are going to ignore them? "

You have the floor and we are all ears.

No he was replying to himself, or talking to himself. Reply above. If you want to brain storm with nick and help him out with that list, i think hes struggling.

Well there you are Geraldine. You certainly have the moral high ground on this one.

Still (and just so you can really rub our noses in it), how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if the country decide they are going to ignore the EU?

You have the floor and we are all ears.

[Nick]

You need to read reply 40, then read it again and then try understand. The answer will also give you an insight into how the EU works, even though you've been a member for the majority of your life you still haven't a clue how it works. The answer is there.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

"[HIGHLIGHT]like they normally do, which requires EU authorisation before a vaccine can be exported.[/HIGHLIGHT]"

Reply 40 tells us how the EU expects members to comply.

Your statement at the beginning of this thread stated quite clearly that the EU "Could stop any country" from exporting vaccines if it so wished.

You still haven't answered how the EU is going to STOP a member exporting vaccines if they ignore EU rule?

[GerryT]

When Gerry was a kid he used to love winding and winding up his toys and of course he broke them,now he comes on here instead and were this a pub discussion instead of this forum he'd have stuff broken again,but it wouldn't be his toys.

Do you ever make a point, or is it just personal comments or snide remarks.

[GerryT]

No, I and now Borky are waiting for an answer to the question.

You need to read reply 40, then read it again and then try understand. The answer will also give you an insight into how the EU works, even though you've been a member for the majority of your life you still haven't a clue how it works. The answer is there.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

[cromwell]

When Gerry was a kid he used to love winding and winding up his toys and of course he broke them,now he comes on here instead and were this a pub discussion instead of this forum he'd have stuff broken again,but it wouldn't be his toys.

[Nick]

No he was replying to himself, or talking to himself. Reply above. If you want to brain storm with nick and help him out with that list, i think hes struggling.

No, I and now Borky are waiting for an answer to the question.

[GerryT]

No, I think that Nick was waiting for an answer to his question which was...

" how will the EU stop a country from exporting anything if they decide they are going to ignore them? "

You have the floor and we are all ears.

No he was replying to himself, or talking to himself. Reply above. If you want to brain storm with nick and help him out with that list, i think hes struggling.

[GerryT]

So where have you answered the question Gerry?

What mechanism has the EU got to stop a member from doing exactly like it wants, just like Hungary?

This is how, the EU introduced an export control mechanism that member states will follow, like they normally do, which requires EU authorisation before a vaccine can be exported.
Why mention Hungary, their not big on the vaccine production & export business. They would be more in the import business and a betting man would say they would be on the top of the list of EU countries looking to ban exports.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/mex_21_1382

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_1352

If you want a copy of the EU regulation that was introduced by the member states of the EU to allow the restriction of vaccine exports you can download here
https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/html/159498.htm
It's like M.Martin, he likes to play the cute-Hoor, says he thinks the blocking of vaccines to the UK is terrible but he's at home laughing his head off happy that we ROI might get more vaccines. Why put a gun to your neighbours head when someone else is doing it.
UK vaccine exports = zero (you must be so proud)
EU exports = over 30 countries & over 70m doses. All goinging through an EU approval process now.

Wheres that list your putting together showing france/germany ordering the rest of the EU about.
On one hand you say these countries tell the others what to do then on the other you say a mino like Hungary does what it wants and tells germany to get stuffed. You cant have it both ways Nick
I'll wait for that list.
Any idea when you'll have that list ?