Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threats to UK

[Borchester]

- thank goodness we left the EU. 

And lucky no one told Gwen. The poor lass would not have been able to bear it.

Mind you, she would not have believed it anyway 

[T00ts]

It was a really dull day today with plaintiff music on the radio and wall to wall memories of the Iron Duke everywhere else it seems. Then I had the brainwave of looking here. Thanks for the giggles gents. Just one thing comes to my mind - thank goodness we left the EU. 

[Borchester]

If you answered the question people wouldn't have to keep asking. You're clearly not going to answer regarding vaccines so let's deal with what we have got.

Hungary built a fence 6 years ago against EU rules and it's still up so what can the EU do to make Hungary take it down?

You can't hide behind export licenses this time. Your big chance to answer a straight question and not obfuscate the thread.

I will get to your list once you answer this to a satisfactory level.

That might have answered the question.

Did not the EU commission get all the members together and agree to write the Hungarians a stroppy letter and did not the Hungarians say get stuffed? And that, as  recall, has been pretty much the end of it.

Maybe Ursula and Gwen will get together and give Boris a jolly good handbagging, but otherwise their options seem pretty limited.

[Nick]

I very very seldom go to personal comments, like above when I answer the mans questions several times and he ignores the replies. That's why he got called a troll, for good reason. He has no intent to debate the topic.

You'll find if you do debate the topic and not the poster things run a lot smother. If your talking to Nick you can ask him how he's getting on with that list.

If you answered the question people wouldn't have to keep asking. You're clearly not going to answer regarding vaccines so let's deal with what we have got.

Hungary built a fence 6 years ago against EU rules and it's still up so what can the EU do to make Hungary take it down?

You can't hide behind export licenses this time. Your big chance to answer a straight question and not obfuscate the thread.

I will get to your list once you answer this to a satisfactory level.

[GerryT]

Says the man who just accused another poster of being a troll and who I pointed out has made personal comments aplently of others previously.Yes Gerry in my personal opinion you are here for one reason alone,you are a WUM and a troll to boot,is that clear enough for you?

I very very seldom go to personal comments, like above when I answer the mans questions several times and he ignores the replies. That's why he got called a troll, for good reason. He has no intent to debate the topic.

You'll find if you do debate the topic and not the poster things run a lot smother. If your talking to Nick you can ask him how he's getting on with that list.

[cromwell]

And like clockwork here's the man that makes no points but just personal comments.

Says the man who just accused another poster of being a troll and who I pointed out has made personal comments aplently of others previously.

Anything to add re the topic or is that it.

Yes Gerry in my personal opinion you are here for one reason alone,you are a WUM and a troll to boot,is that clear enough for you?

[GerryT]

Only a tad harsh on yourself,but totally accurate.

And like clockwork here's the man that makes no points but just personal comments.

Anything to add re the topic or is that it.

[cromwell]

No no lets, lets look at reality and not some internet troll trying to dream up an alternative reality.

Only a tad harsh on yourself,but totally accurate.

[GerryT]

Jesus Christ Gwen, you could waffle for Catford.

I made two points. Just tick yes to one of them and we will take the debate from there.

If your not able to grasp the simpe concept that for vaccine exports all EU countries signed up to this, if they didnt we wouldnt have it. In a union you only get this form of regulation if all agree. I even explained what could happen if one did, cant make it any simplier for you

[Borchester]

No no lets, lets look at reality and not some internet troll trying to dream up an alternative reality. Your asking what if a country allows vaccines out and I keep telling you all 27 EU countries want this, they want the option to block vaccines going to the UK, in fact if some had their way vaccines would have been blocked by now.

I've answered you, a country doesn't export vaccines, companies do and companies need an export certificate issued by the EU, not by an individual country. In your alternative universe you would need an international pharma company to break it's legal requirements and also a country to collude and break it's legal requirements, neither of which is going to happen for the great cause of shipping vaccines to the UK. Currently all vaccine manufacturers in the EU are following this process.

Remember it's the UK according to the AZ CEO that is acting in bad faith, it's the UK indirectly blocking the export of vaccines. What the EU is proposing is to target countries such as the UK and take action there. The EU are not going to stop vaccine exports from companies that are meeting their target shipments to the EU or shipments to countries that do not have an export ban. This is a very specific targeted approach approved by all EU countries.

But in lala land where the UK would send out the tanks, nuclear subs  and RAF, the EU could stop sending vaccines purchased to countries that ignored the export ban, that way the exporting country would have a decision, keep their vaccines or give them away, that would work, but only in your lala land.

Jesus Christ Gwen, you could waffle for Catford.

I made two points. Just tick yes to one of them and we will take the debate from there.

[GerryT]

Let's not.

Just look at (a) and (b), answer yes or no and we will take it from there.

So to reiterate ..

No.

Possibly I put it badly

The question was how does the EU stop a member state exporting to a non member country so

(a) Does Ursula stride into the HQ of the EU Commission, scream "Gott strafe England !" and issue a fatwa that will immediately put a stop to the export of whatever she disapproves of

or

(b) do something else?

No no lets, lets look at reality and not some internet troll trying to dream up an alternative reality. Your asking what if a country allows vaccines out and I keep telling you all 27 EU countries want this, they want the option to block vaccines going to the UK, in fact if some had their way vaccines would have been blocked by now.

I've answered you, a country doesn't export vaccines, companies do and companies need an export certificate issued by the EU, not by an individual country. In your alternative universe you would need an international pharma company to break it's legal requirements and also a country to collude and break it's legal requirements, neither of which is going to happen for the great cause of shipping vaccines to the UK. Currently all vaccine manufacturers in the EU are following this process.

Remember it's the UK according to the AZ CEO that is acting in bad faith, it's the UK indirectly blocking the export of vaccines. What the EU is proposing is to target countries such as the UK and take action there. The EU are not going to stop vaccine exports from companies that are meeting their target shipments to the EU or shipments to countries that do not have an export ban. This is a very specific targeted approach approved by all EU countries.

But in lala land where the UK would send out the tanks, nuclear subs  and RAF, the EU could stop sending vaccines purchased to countries that ignored the export ban, that way the exporting country would have a decision, keep their vaccines or give them away, that would work, but only in your lala land.

[Borchester]

Lets run an example.

Let's not.

Just look at (a) and (b), answer yes or no and we will take it from there.

So to reiterate ..

No.

Possibly I put it badly

The question was how does the EU stop a member state exporting to a non member country so

(a) Does Ursula stride into the HQ of the EU Commission, scream "Gott strafe England !" and issue a fatwa that will immediately put a stop to the export of whatever she disapproves of

or

(b) do something else?

[GerryT]

No.

Possibly I put it badly

The question was how does the EU stop a member state exporting to a non member country.

(a) Does Ursula stride into the HQ of the EU Commission, scream "Gott strafe England !" and issue a fatwa that will immediately put a stop to the export of whatever she disapproves of

or

(b) do something else?

For the sake of clarity it might help if you could just answer (a) or (b) and we will continue the debate from there

Many thanks

Lets run an example. Assume the EU implements the regulation and as its specific its targeted at say AZ and Pfizers but not Moderna or J&J. If all 4 companies look to export vaccines to the UK they will need to het an export declaration approved, in this example its granted to Moderna & J&J but its not for AZ and Pfizer. Neither of these 2 companies can now export from any manufacturing facility located in the EU, to try do so would be breaching EU law and i'm sure there are plenty of penalties etc can be dished out. Likewise an EU country trying to facilitate such a move would again be unlawful. What your try to to suggest is what does the EU do if a country willfully and deliberatly acts unlawfully, and what i've explained is countries don't do that or they face penalities.

For example when the UK as a member of the EU failed to apply correct import VAT rules to chinese shoe imports it ended up with the UK getting a 1.7billion fine.
But on a more practicle note and one your constantly ignoring is no EU country will go against this EU regulation. Unless you care to start listing them. With countries crying out for vaccines im sure they would be happy to get more.
Secondly what your also ignoring is all 27 countries asked for this as they wrote and agreed together this regulation. Each of the 27 signed off on this and handed UVDLeyen the power to do this if and when she sees fit. Countries are behind this, not against this.

[Borchester]

I keep answering and you don't grasp it. Lets say Germany introduces new export requirements and then Germany breaks those requirements. Is that your question ?

No.

Possibly I put it badly

The question was how does the EU stop a member state exporting to a non member country.

(a) Does Ursula stride into the HQ of the EU Commission, scream "Gott strafe England !" and issue a fatwa that will immediately put a stop to the export of whatever she disapproves of

or

(b) do something else?

For the sake of clarity it might help if you could just answer (a) or (b) and we will continue the debate from there

Many thanks

[Nick]

I keep answering and you don't grasp it. Lets say Germany introduces new export requirements and then Germany breaks those requirements. Is that your question ?

The question I have been asking for a week is simple and you know what it is.
That's why I brought up Hungary not complying with the EU's immigration quota.

If Holland decides it isn't going to comply with the EU vaccine policy, just like Hungary did, what can they do to stop the shipments?