Derek Chauvin is innocent

[Nick]

Seriously? 14 minutes in to this they have him in handcuffs behind his back and leg restraints on.....what's he going to do roll across across the road,somehow get to his feet and hop away?

If you think kneeling on someones neck wont restrict an airway you're all mad,had it been here they'd have had him in the back of a meatvan.
I saw a report that compared to this countries cops they are very poorly trained and iirc they spend about a third of the time being trained brit cops do.

The main reason they use that technique is keeping their hands free to be able to access their gun. There is always the chance that someone on the sidelines could pull a gun on them, very different policing.

[Tarn]

Hi Tarn good to see you back posting .

The only autopsy to be taken seriously is the official one submitted by the  state medical examiner . Thats the one that says he died of a heart attack while being subdued . The neck compression is the point they have to argue in court and if that was the cause of  bringing on the heart attack .  The medical examiner also thought it worth mentioning that had Floyd been found dead at home with nothing else to go on he would have recorded a drug over dose as the cause of death .

Thanks for the welcome. I have not abandoned the place, but I am in my first year at uni, and have a lot less free time. 

I understand the points you are making, and I don't want to jump to any unwarranted conclusions, but I am also informed by comments made by Cromwell, which seem to indicate that (irrespective of training) the technique employed by Chauvin could be considered both unnecessary and dangerous under the circumstances.

Media such as Fox News has made a lot of the otherwise innocuous comment by Dr Andrew Baker - that if Floyd had died in his bed, one might have surmised the proximate cause as an overdose of Fentanyl.

However, it is demonstrable that Floyd did not die at home from an overdose of anything - the proximate cause of death found by Dr Baker, and the other doctor who performed a further autopsy, was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." Whether the cause of death was asphyxiation or a heart attack is arguable, but inconsequential.

The video evidence that Derek Chauvin was the actor who knelt upon Floyd's neck for nearly ten minutes, while Floyd was complaining that he could not breathe, is material and incontrovertible.

Of course I have sympathy for George Floyd's family and loved ones, but my primary concern devolves about the consequences of accepting criminal malfeasance from anyone in uniform or authority.

Befehl ist Befehl did not pass muster at Nuremberg, and should not be acceptable anywhere else.

[Borchester]

I thought you were keeping out of this

I did a little research and it seems the use of neck restraint by arm or leg is indeed part of the training of Minneapolis and the neighbouring Minnetonka PD so it would seem there are others culpable here.

I would say DD your post makes American cops in to a whole section of what you call victimhood, so it's a shitty job at times...many jobs are crap at times but done by a lot of people if you join you sign up to that,it being difficult at times does not give you the right to treating other people whether criminal or not in a poor manner.

Despite you describing how awful a job it is, in the land of the free it does have many attached benefits like free health care and for all the trump supporters swearing their alleigance to the thin blue line that evaporated quite quickly when they were brought to book for invading the capitol building.

I have already described that by 14 minutes in to that video he was handcuffed behind his back and in leg restraints and was therefore going nowhere or a threat to anyone,so if any of you Derek Chauvin is innocent supporters can explain why someone already complaining of breathing difficulties needed to have a knee on their neck,basic humanity I would've thought might kick in and say this bloke has a problem.

I would also ask if any of you given the above circumstances would put a knee on a persons neck when restained as above when they say they can't breathe?

Maybe both of you are right.

Chauvin has had a string of complaints made against him but was still on duty. This suggests that he was the sort of bloke everyone moaned about, but when the trouble started no one wanted his job.

[cromwell]

Hi Tarn good to see you back posting .

Ditto

[cromwell]

I see what you said about the repercussions if he isn't convicted, but I'll just add this. Tens of thousands of police officers across the US will be watching this too. Officers who face this kind of shit day in, day out. You know this is a little more than a soviet era show trial to appease liberal sensibilities. It's difficult to see how any kind of intent can be proved after that, but that won't stop the baying mobs. Certain peoples attitudes only feed their burning sense of victimisation, when in reality, this was simply another difficult day for the average police department where mistakes are all to easy to make. Yet someone has to have the courage to do this kind of job, or you can basically forget about the rule of law.

Even manslaughter isn't justice, but whatever the outcome, it's hard not to see police officers walking away from the job in droves after this. I pity them now. It's not a job I would take for any amount of money

I thought you were keeping out of this

I did a little research and it seems the use of neck restraint by arm or leg is indeed part of the training of Minneapolis and the neighbouring Minnetonka PD so it would seem there are others culpable here.

I would say DD your post makes American cops in to a whole section of what you call victimhood, so it's a shitty job at times...many jobs are crap at times but done by a lot of people, if you join you sign up to that,it being difficult at times does not give you the right to treating other people whether criminal or not in a poor manner.

Despite you describing how awful a job it is, in the land of the free it does have many attached benefits like free health care and for all the trump supporters swearing their alleigance to the thin blue line that evaporated quite quickly when they were brought to book for invading the capitol building.

I have already described that by 14 minutes in to that video he was handcuffed behind his back and in leg restraints and was therefore going nowhere or a threat to anyone,so if any of you Derek Chauvin is innocent supporters can explain why someone already complaining of breathing difficulties needed to have a knee on their neck,basic humanity I would've thought might kick in and say this bloke has a problem.

I would also ask if any of you given the above circumstances would put a knee on a persons neck when restained as above when they say they can't breathe?

[Streetwalker]

Don't you?

The official autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide caused by neck compression, and a video showed Derek Chauvin kneeling on his neck for nearly ten minutes.

An independent autopsy of George Floyd has found the 46-year-old's cause of death was "mechanical asphyxia" and that his death was a homicide.

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner has now declared the death of George Floyd a homicide, saying he died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression".

The updated report from the examiner states that Mr Floyd died from a loss of blood flow due to compression on his neck while being restrained by Minneapolis police.

Ref:https://www.sbs.com.au/news/george-floyd-s-death-was-homicide-caused-by-neck-compression-official-autopsy-finds

Hi Tarn good to see you back posting .

The only autopsy to be taken seriously is the official one submitted by the  state medical examiner . Thats the one that says he died of a heart attack while being subdued . The neck compression is the point they have to argue in court and if that was the cause of  bringing on the heart attack .  The medical examiner also thought it worth mentioning that had Floyd been found dead at home with nothing else to go on he would have recorded a drug over dose as the cause of death .

[Tarn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gQYMBALDXc

Dont see how any jury can convict on the evidence , but we all know what will happen if they dont .

Don't you?

The official autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide caused by neck compression, and a video showed Derek Chauvin kneeling on his neck for nearly ten minutes.

An independent autopsy of George Floyd has found the 46-year-old's cause of death was "mechanical asphyxia" and that his death was a homicide.

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner has now declared the death of George Floyd a homicide, saying he died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression".

The updated report from the examiner states that Mr Floyd died from a loss of blood flow due to compression on his neck while being restrained by Minneapolis police.

Ref:https://www.sbs.com.au/news/george-floyd-s-death-was-homicide-caused-by-neck-compression-official-autopsy-finds

[DeppityDawg]

Yeah, what do you know about nicking people? 

I see what you said about the repercussions if he isn't convicted, but I'll just add this. Tens of thousands of police officers across the US will be watching this too. Officers who face this kind of shit day in, day out. You know this is a little more than a soviet era show trial to appease liberal sensibilities. It's difficult to see how any kind of intent can be proved after that, but that won't stop the baying mobs. Certain peoples attitudes only feed their burning sense of victimisation, when in reality, this was simply another difficult day for the average police department where mistakes are all to easy to make. Yet someone has to have the courage to do this kind of job, or you can basically forget about the rule of law.

Even manslaughter isn't justice, but whatever the outcome, it's hard not to see police officers walking away from the job in droves after this. I pity them now. It's not a job I would take for any amount of money

[cromwell]

I dont think anyone is saying the police in this case have not dealt with the situation as well as they could but from the uncut video it appears a very long way from being  a murder . Let alone a racist murder
The BLM version which forced the prosecution had Floyd claiming 'I can't breath' while on the ground  and a knee on his neck when it is quite clear he had a problem breathing (or said he did ) as early as being asked to sit (Please sir  just sit in the car ) in the police car .

The police were courteous and clear with what they were asking the suspect of a crime to do throughout . Floyd chose the path that the arrest went (in that he wasnt co-operating ) Chauvin was doing what he was trained to do and didnt 'loose it' at any point

The only question is wether Chauvin's knee caused Floyd to stop breathing or caused the heart attack .  From what Im seeing they are a million miles away from proving that .

Derek Chauvin is innocent

I didn't say it was murder post #6 covered it.

[johnofgwent]

Cardiac arrest due to heart disease.  He was also claiming that he couldn't breath before he was restrained on the floor.  My guess is that the police, like I said, acknowledged his behaviour as resisting arrest whilst under the influence of drugs, and I think they were right, since Floyd did have drugs in his system (methamphetamine) and was clearly not cooperating.  Unfortunately, it seems that they didn't question the possibility that he had a heart condition, and that was a mistake, but a mistake anyone could make under the circumstances.  I do think the police cocked up, but I see no intent to kill him and I definitely do not put it down to racism.

Now I'm no doctor and my degree only allowed me to train them, but I have to say, anyone with as heart condition who voluntarily consumes crystal meth is a few sandwiches light in the picnic lunch area...

[Streetwalker]

Seriously? 14 minutes in to this they have him in handcuffs behind his back and leg restraints on.....what's he going to do roll across across the road,somehow get to his feet and hop away?

If you think kneeling on someones neck wont restrict an airway you're all mad,had it been here they'd have had him in the back of a meatvan.
I saw a report that compared to this countries cops they are very poorly trained and iirc they spend about a third of the time being trained brit cops do.

I dont think anyone is saying the police in this case have not dealt with the situation as well as they could but from the uncut video it appears a very long way from being  a murder . Let alone a racist murder
The BLM version which forced the prosecution had Floyd claiming 'I cant breath' while on the ground  and a knee on his neck when it is quite clear he had a problem breathing (or said he did ) as early as being asked to sit (Please sir  just sit in the car ) in the police car .

The police were courteous and clear with what they were asking the suspect of a crime to do throughout . Floyd chose the path that the arrest went (in that he wasnt co-operating ) Chauvin was doing what he was trained to do and didnt 'loose it' at any point

The only question is wether Chauvin's knee caused Floyd to stop breathing or caused the heart attack .  From what Im seeing they are a million miles away from proving that .

Derek Chauvin is innocent

[Barry]

I'd better keep out of this 

Yeah, what do you know about nicking people? 

[DeppityDawg]

I'd better keep out of this 

[Barry]

Well if you have heart problems which the autopsy identified restricting someones airway isn't going to help is it.

Anyway why does anybody think kneeling on someones neck not least when they are cuffed behind their back and leg restraints on is ok,was he in a position to threaten anyone and do you think kneeling on someones neck acceptable,how about that baz?

Depends on the training. I believe he will say that this was how he had been taught to restrain people.
Common sense says kneeling on anyone's neck is likely to suffocate, but in his case, apparently, it didn't.
I prefer a headlock, myself!

[B-4]

There's a bit of a problem with the autopsy, which does not say he died from asphyxia.
How about that, Mr Cromwell?

Cardiac arrest due to heart disease.  He was also claiming that he couldn't breath before he was restrained on the floor.  My guess is that the police, like I said, acknowledged his behaviour as resisting arrest whilst under the influence of drugs, and I think they were right, since Floyd did have drugs in his system (methamphetamine) and was clearly not cooperating.  Unfortunately, it seems that they didn't question the possibility that he had a heart condition, and that was a mistake, but a mistake anyone could make under the circumstances.  I do think the police cocked up, but I see no intent to kill him and I definitely do not put it down to racism.