Labour are deluded.

[Churchill]

The alternative is to just carry on neglecting large swathes of society in order to maintain current inequality.

They are not being ignored there is a limit to how much people can be helped it may not be as much help as you think they need but they do get help , the best way to help them is to have a strong economy , more jobs, and people helping themselves , that way more revenue will be raised to help those in need better to get those that want to work or are capable of work into work.



The Welfare State is a safety net, not a way of life



Labour would just trash our economy jobs would go hand over fist businesses and global companies would either close down or move out of the UK, revenue would tumble so less money available to pay the nations bills, pay off our debts, it would only go one way downhill and fast.

[Nick]

"trickle down economics" is not a recognised economist's term. It was originally made up by a stage actor and has since been adopted by American socialist politicians keen to bash capitalists.



If you think it is some sort of economist's textbook theory then you have been had!

It's a term recognised by establishments from the Guardian to Forbes, and strangely enough it is a term recognised by you as not a recognised term 😜.



Unlike you, my views come out of my head via a cognitive thought process, you should try it.

[Baron von Lotsov]

So Labour think they can whack the top 5% earners and big business with impunity, they clearly don't understand trickle (gush) down economics.

"trickle down economics" is not a recognised economist's term. It was originally made up by a stage actor and has since been adopted by American socialist politicians keen to bash capitalists.



If you think it is some sort of economist's textbook theory then you have been had!

[Nick]

The high earners already pay over a quarter of the Revenue into the treasury every year , which will be nowhere near what Labour will need without putting up taxes all the way round



here is just some of what he will do Inheritance Tax he will scrap the £150,000 allowance which will raise £725 million , Scrap Married Tax allowance £535 million, Private schools would loose charitable status and hit with VAT , estimated that 30,000 parent will be forced to put their kids into state schools costing the taxpayers £1.5 billion, second home tax taxation doubled £560 million, Corporation Tax raise it to 26% £23.7 billion even small firms with profits under £300,00 would pay 21%



Income Tax anyone earning more than £80,000 would pay 45 % tax anyone earning £125,000 the super rich rate which McDonnell did not elaborate on



Global Companies  Tax on Technology Amazon Facebook etc £6,3 billion , which will simply drive them out of the UK    



Capital Gains Ta same level as Income Tax £7 billion, Transaction Tax e.g City of London £8.8 Billion which would risk Banks leaving the UK.



Scrap Tax breaks businesses including those paid to carry out research and development £8.3 Billion.



Four day working week which would mean hiring hundreds more staff for NHS Police etc  



It is simple out in the open class war envy and spite ,  this is far worse than Michael Foots Manifesto which saw the Labour Party kicked into the long grass this one will either finish off the Labour Party or the UK,

The top 5% earners already pay over 90% of the tax revenue but are still vilified. Labour want to now hit the corporations that provide these top 5%. When they up sticks the Corporation tax, PAYE tax and NIC's are going to go. Welcome back to the winter of discontent.



If labour provide free broadband, who is going to employ the people who will be laid off from Virgin Media and all the other ISP's? Thousands of people thrust onto the dole, but hey it's all good, the great unwashed will have their benefits, their cigarettes, their booze and SKY TV.  tоварищ Corbyn will be the messiah and worshipped for taking the country back to the 70's, somewhere his voters have never been.

[cromwell]

Of course these proposals are delusional,they just aren't affordable and we don't have the luxury of North Sea oil now,it's all very well looking back in his thread fondly as to how saint Maggie rescued this country and brought this nations finances to order,painful truth is that it was all courtesy of oil money and selling off the family silver which you can only do once.



Such a dividend totally squandered.

[Ciaphas]

Just been reading what Labour are going to do if they win, according to the experts it is not feasible or credible at all and will hit everyone hard to pay for it

The alternative is to just carry on neglecting large swathes of society in order to maintain current inequality.

[johnofgwent]

I can't get behind the FT's paywall and When Britain Went Bust isn't on either B-ok.cc or Internet Archive. And to cap it all, apart from Amazon.co.uk, the only other copies are on sale in France and Germany. Shame really because it is about the run on the pound in 1976. The Labour government of the time got its knickers in a twist and asked the IMF for a loan and the IMF insisted on budget cuts and the government made the cuts and Harold Wilson resigned as Prime Minister so as to make way for an older man in the shape of Sunny Jim Callaghan and the country stumbled into the Winter of Discontent which resulted in Maggie Thatcher winning the 1979 general election



And shortly after that it was discovered that the loan wasn't necessary because the Treasury had gotten its sums wrong.



So the lesson is, never put a socialist in charge of any enterprise bigger than a burger van. Although Harold Wilson had studied and lectured in economics at Oxford and was later employed as an economist, he never seemed to have mastered the basic tenet that figures should always be checked at least twice.

Yes, except that this loan, taken out on my 19th birthday so I was too busy doing something else with a girlfriend that dumped me for a dustman and then dumped him for a young farmer to notice much detail ... This loan was not the first, the others had gone through quietly and Healey (who by now was off the NEC for being too right wing) blames insanely high borrowing forecasts for the demand we do a yanos and surrender to the IMF

[johnofgwent]

Sorry but not got an FT subscription. Can you paste the text here?

 Neither do I but it came up free for me as a limited view of an old article. I will see if I can get something else

[Churchill]

The high earners already pay over a quarter of the Revenue into the treasury every year , which will be nowhere near what Labour will need without putting up taxes all the way round



here is just some of what he will do Inheritance Tax he will scrap the £150,000 allowance which will raise £725 million , Scrap Married Tax allowance £535 million, Private schools would loose charitable status and hit with VAT , estimated that 30,000 parent will be forced to put their kids into state schools costing the taxpayers £1.5 billion, second home tax taxation doubled £560 million, Corporation Tax raise it to 26% £23.7 billion even small firms with profits under £300,00 would pay 21%



Income Tax anyone earning more than £80,000 would pay 45 % tax anyone earning £125,000 the super rich rate which McDonnell did not elaborate on



Global Companies  Tax on Technology Amazon Facebook etc £6,3 billion , which will simply drive them out of the UK    



Capital Gains Ta same level as Income Tax £7 billion, Transaction Tax e.g City of London £8.8 Billion which would risk Banks leaving the UK.



Scrap Tax breaks businesses including those paid to carry out research and development £8.3 Billion.



Four day working week which would mean hiring hundreds more staff for NHS Police etc  



It is simple out in the open class war envy and spite ,  this is far worse than Michael Foots Manifesto which saw the Labour Party kicked into the long grass this one will either finish off the Labour Party or the UK,

[Javert]

Just been reading what Labour are going to do if they win, according to the experts it is not feasible or credible at all and will hit everyone hard to pay for it

I've downloaded the Labour Manifesto and I'll take a look when I get time.



What I'd like to see is the calculations of how they will fund all this, whilst still only putting extra tax on the top 5% of earners.



My gut feel says that they would have to put an absolute massive tax hike on those folks in order to make that kind of money, and if they do, some of them will leave the country or take other measures to avoid paying the extra tax.  However I haven't seen the numbers yet so I'm not sure.



That said, I'm not necessarily against putting extra taxes on a much higher % of people in order to achieve good things, but in that case you should be transparent about it.

[Churchill]

On the subject of the IMF, it's probably worth the younger members of our forum taking a read of this account of thelast time we had a government with the sort of views Corbyn has about monetary policy



It did not end well.



https://www.ft.com/content/3b583050-d277-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0">https://www.ft.com/content/3b583050-d27 ... 0c49b4b4c0">https://www.ft.com/content/3b583050-d277-11e6-b06b-680c49b4b4c0

That is why Labour want to lower the voting age, a new generation that have never experienced a Labour Government in power before

[Churchill]

Just been reading what Labour are going to do if they win, according to the experts it is not feasible or credible at all and will hit everyone hard to pay for it

[T00ts]

One thing they have managed to achieve - they've moved debate from Brexit.

[Churchill]

They work until they run out of money our money, and with what Labour claim they will do that will not take long at all, jobs will go tax revenue will fall, the rich and high earners will leg it which happened in France when they put taxes up to such a high level it was not acceptable to them, they had to reverse it within a couple of years

[Javert]

I can't get behind the FT's paywall and When Britain Went Bust isn't on either B-ok.cc or Internet Archive. And to cap it all, apart from Amazon.co.uk, the only other copies are on sale in France and Germany. Shame really because it is about the run on the pound in 1976. The Labour government of the time got its knickers in a twist and asked the IMF for a loan and the IMF insisted on budget cuts and the government made the cuts and Harold Wilson resigned as Prime Minister so as to make way for an older man in the shape of Sunny Jim Callaghan and the country stumbled into the Winter of Discontent which resulted in Maggie Thatcher winning the 1979 general election



And shortly after that it was discovered that the loan wasn't necessary because the Treasury had gotten its sums wrong.



So the lesson is, never put a socialist in charge of any enterprise bigger than a burger van. Although Harold Wilson had studied and lectured in economics at Oxford and was later employed as an economist, he never seemed to have mastered the basic tenet that figures should always be checked at least twice.

So this means socialist policies work fine as long as you have good accountants then?  Seems like it wasn't that bad after all.