Modern English women and their European counterparts

[Bright Young Thing]

It's logic though. You can't have your cake and eat it, even though the feminine mind would desire to.



If you wear overalls in your job it is because your normal clothes would get damaged in some way.



If you are wearing overalls with zero sign of wear it means that the overalls were superfluous. Not withstanding the slim chance that you buy new overalls say every three years and the one day you bought a new set was the day you happened to be at the show, say approx 1 in 1000 chance, but then if the whole team looks like that you have to take the Occam's razor approach and conclude the likely reason is the girl is fooling you. She may have been told to do it as part of her job, like the girls of old in the bikini, but that's it. Like I say, its the detail that tells the biggest story at these events.

Explain the above highlighted text please.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Have you never heard of vehicle lifts? If you get your overalls dirty in a garage these days your are doing the job wrong.

It's logic though. You can't have your cake and eat it, even though the feminine mind would desire to.



If you wear overalls in your job it is because your normal clothes would get damaged in some way.



If you are wearing overalls with zero sign of wear it means that the overalls were superfluous. Not withstanding the slim chance that you buy new overalls say every three years and the one day you bought a new set was the day you happened to be at the show, say approx 1 in 1000 chance, but then if the whole team looks like that you have to take the Occam's razor approach and conclude the likely reason is the girl is fooling you. She may have been told to do it as part of her job, like the girls of old in the bikini, but that's it. Like I say, its the detail that tells the biggest story at these events.

[papasmurf]

Just one thing there. Blokes wear overalls because they do a lot of hands-on work, and the overalls are supposed to protect their clothes from rips and whatever you might get when fiddling underneath a car. This fiddling underneath cars is how blokes work out how the brakes actually work as compared to what the textbook says. They get a more nuanced understanding of engineering that way. If you see a person in a set of overalls on the TV where it looks like they have just pulled them off the peg at the overall retailers then it nearly always means one thing.



To work out what is going on, check the small details, like the amount of wear on the cuffs.

Have you never heard of vehicle lifts? If you get your overalls dirty in a garage these days your are doing the job wrong.

[Baron von Lotsov]

The very nice lady from Lotus who explained how their braking system worked was in a set of quite spotless overalls. The technicians from Toyota were equally clad in the clothes associated with those who worked on the cars or built them rather than the clothes they might wear to sprawl around them n their holidays,

Just one thing there. Blokes wear overalls because they do a lot of hands-on work, and the overalls are supposed to protect their clothes from rips and whatever you might get when fiddling underneath a car. This fiddling underneath cars is how blokes work out how the brakes actually work as compared to what the textbook says. They get a more nuanced understanding of engineering that way. If you see a person in a set of overalls on the TV where it looks like they have just pulled them off the peg at the overall retailers then it nearly always means one thing.



To work out what is going on, check the small details, like the amount of wear on the cuffs.

[Barry]

Well that's of course utter bullshit because very few women find engineering interesting. I mean i have tried this in the field as it were and talked to many women about engineering and it is the most effective way I know of getting rid of them. It bores them stiff. Likewise on this forum I have not seen a woman start a thread or show any interest in engineering. It's a lads thing, except of course if the girl is down the government job centre and the thumbscrews are being turned. "you do like engineering don't you" -yes - scream.

I've got a daughter and two sons. They've all watched me do building, plumbing, electrical work.

If I couldn't do a job myself and wanted one doing, I'd ask my daughter. She has more manual dexterity and has taken on the know-how I have at a much greater level than the boys.

What you have posted is just a continuation of your bigotry against women. It says much more about you than about women and their capabilities.

[Baron von Lotsov]

You are certain of course that it's the engineering. I don't discuss cars or engineering or general building here I go to the experts' forums.

OK then, link to one of the engineering threads you have started and I'll believe it.

[johnofgwent]

The trouble with that is all you are doing is finding an odd example that contradicts the convention. Unless you were born yesterday you would be fully aware the blond who has never used a screwdriver in her life is the one who sits on the bonnet of the car at motor shows. It's about as conventional as Father Christmas wears red, to match the coke he represents.



Also another myth I hear over and over again is women were denied the chance to do things like engineering. Well that's of course utter bullshit because very few women find engineering interesting. I mean i have tried this in the field as it were and talked to many women about engineering and it is the most effective way I know of getting rid of them. It bores them stiff. Likewise on this forum I have not seen a woman start a thread or show any interest in engineering. It's a lads thing, except of course if the girl is down the government job centre and the thumbscrews are being turned. "you do like engineering don't you" -yes - scream.

Well, I've spent forty years in the engineering and science business and I've yet to meet a blonde who doesn't know how to use a screwdriver.



You would think that after four decades of travelling through six countries meeting all sorts of people from John Harvey Jones to the bloke who swept the pavements outside the conference centre at which *HE* came to *OUR* trade fair, from three star generals to grunts, from bankers to sellers of the big issue,  you would think in ALL that time I might actually meet **ONE** woman who actually MET the spec for needing the walkman tape to tell her to breathe in and breathe out.



Clearly the streets where you live are awash with such specimens.



The motor show to which I refer was a most interesting one.  I went there partly out of curiosity, partly to meet the rallying team that repaired my M Homologated 122mph rally ready but 100% road legal Toyota Corolla DX when a  clown in a volvo estate rammed it at 30 and **DIDNT** write it off because it was BUILT to withstand that sort of shit.



I also went there at the invitation of one of the companies we supplied military components to... they gave us some tickets, I took two blokes and three women from my team with me, the drop dead gorgeous bond girl clone who designed torpedo fire control systems, the one who came to us from NASA who who went on to work on helicopter gunships who i would meet again years later on a firing range when I was freelance, and  the last was the woman who would later rise to be Project Manager of the Over The Horizon Radar System I helped build, again after I went freelance.



I mention her particularly because her husband was responsible for the launch of the new Peugeot that year, and she was very, very keen to STOP any of us seeing her husband's work. I wondered why ....



And we were there on press Day, the day where naked women were supposed to be draped off every door handle.



I didn't see ONE.  Maybe "my women" did a sterling job of steering us all away from such.



Given one of them had more of a hankering for the ladies herself I would have found that .. surprising.



No, I didn't even see any scantily clad busty ones in bikinis.



The very nice lady from Lotus who explained how their braking system worked was in a set of quite spotless overalls. The technicians from Toyota were equally clad in the clothes associated with those who worked on the cars or built them rather than the clothes they might wear to sprawl around them n their holidays, and it was another pair of women who greeted me when I popped up to the Toyota stand to thank their crew for the repair job (after being stoved in all along the side by the T@@@ behind the wheel of a volvo estate who misjudged a T junction turning and picked me up on their front bumpers, my car was taken to the repair bay at the main dealer where my father in law ran the workshops. The boss had offered the repair facilities to Toyota's FRAM Welsh Rally crew and when they saw one of the base vehicles from their rally production in for repair of the panel damage, they had their own crew fix it.....)



The biotech area in which I spent a fair bit of my early career and research is naturally a magnet for women of intelligence and drive so maybe, just maybe, I have acquired a different set of standards by which to judge people than you have.



And I have to say, when I was head hunted internally and transferred to a different division in my defence company employer just before everything went tits up and the company plunged to bankruptcy, when the women who worked for me found out who as going to replace me, they all marched straight down to HR and resigned because the guy was a total mysogynistic prick.



The T@@@ who sunk the company was from the same mould. Utter arse with no idea of the talent he had at his command.  



But back to that Motor Show.



Ford were promoting a new (diesel) engine for their existing range of cars, targetting the travelling sales rep and road warrior.



Leyland DAF were pushing a new truck - and a new truck seat designed by Aston Martin.



Volvo had a big slogan on a poster round the back of their massive stand which proclaimed in letters eight foot high "HOW WE MAKE A CONSUMER DURABLE" (clever play on words that, I thought).



Lotus as I said had just come up with a new idea for braking systems that was supposedly capable of stopping their Elise ? in half the time the highway code said a vehicle needed.



Rolls Royce and Bentley ... used the smell of the leather.



And Peugeot ... Used a bunch of seriously camp tennis players in silly shirts and hats to rush around their rather mundane "new" model.



I'm not surprised Julia didn't want me to see how her husband chose to market the new model. It was truly cringeworthy.



FORTUNATELY, every single girl in my grand daughter's class at primary school is utterly fascinated by maths, science, and stuff like "how do they hold that bridge up that goes over the river" sort of questions. They'll go along way.

[T00ts]

The trouble with that is all you are doing is finding an odd example that contradicts the convention. Unless you were born yesterday you would be fully aware the blond who has never used a screwdriver in her life is the one who sits on the bonnet of the car at motor shows. It's about as conventional as Father Christmas wears red, to match the coke he represents.



Also another myth I hear over and over again is women were denied the chance to do things like engineering. Well that's of course utter bullshit because very few women find engineering interesting. I mean i have tried this in the field as it were and talked to many women about engineering and it is the most effective way I know of getting rid of them. It bores them stiff. Likewise on this forum I have not seen a woman start a thread or show any interest in engineering. It's a lads thing, except of course if the girl is down the government job centre and the thumbscrews are being turned. "you do like engineering don't you" -yes - scream.

You are certain of course that it's the engineering. I don't discuss cars or engineering or general building here I go to the experts' forums.

[Baron von Lotsov]

But to come back again to the OP, I just don't recognise the distinction our Baron makes.  But then I suppose I've grown up and been continuously employed in a world where women are scientists, engineers and factory workers just as much as men. I recall back in the 80's at the motor show Lotus had as many women fronting their trade stand for the new model as men. I recall asking this platinum blonde how the brakes worked as well as they claimed, and she took me to this (engineless to save weight) model mounted on a frame so the wheels were at eye level, and she showed me. And either she really did work for them in their design place, or she's spent at AGES being briefed because she and the "woman" i had with me (who'd just delivered the swivel mount she designed for a tank gun to the army for inspection) were quite heavily engaged in a discussion of the relative wear rates of metals used in the ball joints .....



And while I've got a factory full of "Rosie The Rivetter" 's assembling the trims and wing mirrors for land rovers, the team that negotiate the contracts are all women and two of the designers are as well. Makes me feel quite outnumbered ... or it would if i gave a toss.

The trouble with that is all you are doing is finding an odd example that contradicts the convention. Unless you were born yesterday you would be fully aware the blond who has never used a screwdriver in her life is the one who sits on the bonnet of the car at motor shows. It's about as conventional as Father Christmas wears red, to match the coke he represents.



Also another myth I hear over and over again is women were denied the chance to do things like engineering. Well that's of course utter bullshit because very few women find engineering interesting. I mean i have tried this in the field as it were and talked to many women about engineering and it is the most effective way I know of getting rid of them. It bores them stiff. Likewise on this forum I have not seen a woman start a thread or show any interest in engineering. It's a lads thing, except of course if the girl is down the government job centre and the thumbscrews are being turned. "you do like engineering don't you" -yes - scream.

[johnofgwent]

:hattip  Respect that you acknowledge their strength.

"respect" my arse, who do you think taught them where to kick ...



Like I said elsewhere, both my kids can strip a car engine, transmission, half shafts and suspension, know where the fuel, electrical,  brake, and coolant lines run on their cars and what to look for such that they can TELL the AA Man what's wrong while they're calling him. They can outrun, out-reverse and outsteer me on a rally track, and if clarkson loans them one of HIS cars (they're not going to waste tyre rubber I've paid for) they can demonstrate they can out-doughnut him too.



They're both bloody useless on motorbikes though - which is just as well, me and my brother have to have SOMETHING to beat them at, come on !!



But to come back again to the OP, I just don't recognise the distinction our Baron makes.  But then I suppose I've grown up and been continuously employed in a world where women are scientists, engineers and factory workers just as much as men. I recall back in the 80's at the motor show Lotus had as many women fronting their trade stand for the new model as men. I recall asking this platinum blonde how the brakes worked as well as they claimed, and she took me to this (engineless to save weight) model mounted on a frame so the wheels were at eye level, and she showed me. And either she really did work for them in their design place, or she's spent at AGES being briefed because she and the "woman" i had with me (who'd just delivered the swivel mount she designed for a tank gun to the army for inspection) were quite heavily engaged in a discussion of the relative wear rates of metals used in the ball joints .....



And while I've got a factory full of "Rosie The Rivetter" 's assembling the trims and wing mirrors for land rovers, the team that negotiate the contracts are all women and two of the designers are as well. Makes me feel quite outnumbered ... or it would if i gave a toss.

[papasmurf]

The second bit I mention is quite true. I've seen many women do that. There are a lot of single mothers around here.

I suggest you read this:-

More at link:-



read:https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2018">https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... wales/2018">https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2018



1. Main points

There were 657,076 live births in England and Wales in 2018, a decrease of 3.2% since 2017 and a 9.9% decrease since the most recent peak in 2012.

The total fertility rate (TFR) decreased from 1.76 to 1.70 children per woman in 2018; this is lower than all previous years except 1977 and 1999 to 2002.

The crude birth rate (CBR) decreased from 11.6 to 11.1 live births per 1,000 total population in 2018; this is the lowest rate since records began in 1938.

Fertility rates decreased in all age groups except for women aged 40 years and over, where the rate remained at 16.1 births per 1,000 women of this age.

The proportion of live births to non-UK born mothers fell for the first time since 1990, from 28.4% to 28.2%.

The stillbirth rate reached a record low for the second year running in 2018, with 4.1 stillbirths per 1,000 total births.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Dear me what an upper class misogynist view of women you have, you are also decades out of date with your second tirade.

Yes indeed, the traditional English customs of marriage and families are now considered "misogynist". I see that word used everywhere, as it is with words like racist, homophobic and so on. This modern ideology came from the feminists, and notably the second wave of feminism in the 1970s. That in itself emanated from America, and thanks to our special relationship it was imported by the bucket load.



It does a good job of explaining why the European woman does not think this way. Europe tends to speak different languages  from the Americans, so was less subject to the propaganda. I'm thinking of the likes of the French and the Italians. The Germans though are a bit different.



The second bit I mention is quite true. I've seen many women do that. There are a lot of single mothers around here.



https://www.closer.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/Live-births-outside-marriage-graph-1.png">

[papasmurf]

Fair enough. That's what I was thinking anyway, that such a person develops in that way if they have a tough life. This is why in traditional English society the gentleman has a specific job to do, and that is to protect ye woman from trouble. That way the woman lives a kind of charmed life, and can concentrate on her duties, which involve caring for children. So it goes down the line: man cares for woman - woman cares for children. Also that way the children can have a pleasant childhood and dream of nice things and have ambitions. They would also traditionally have a nanny as well.



Now we live in a messed up society, the woman argues with the man, splits up when the child is 6 months old and then has to do the whole lot on her own, whilst sleeping around with various guys on and off when she can fit it in. The state takes care of the children like the meaning of the word care in the Mafioso sense "we'll take care of them".

Dear me what an upper class misogynist view of women you have, you are also decades out of date with your second tirade.

[Baron von Lotsov]

My mother feared nothing and no-one, she spent most of her life tilting at windmills, and sometimes winning.

When people tell me I am a difficult bastard I tell them it is hereditary, you should have met my mother.

She also kept her head in emergencies, when home births were the norm, my mother saved one of my aunties life.

My aunty haemorrhaged very badly giving birth, the midwife panicked, my mother threw the mid-wife out of the way (literally) and dealt with the situation.

Fair enough. That's what I was thinking anyway, that such a person develops in that way if they have a tough life. This is why in traditional English society the gentleman has a specific job to do, and that is to protect ye woman from trouble. That way the woman lives a kind of charmed life, and can concentrate on her duties, which involve caring for children. So it goes down the line: man cares for woman - woman cares for children. Also that way the children can have a pleasant childhood and dream of nice things and have ambitions. They would also traditionally have a nanny as well.



Now we live in a messed up society, the woman argues with the man, splits up when the child is 6 months old and then has to do the whole lot on her own, whilst sleeping around with various guys on and off when she can fit it in. The state takes care of the children like the meaning of the word care in the Mafioso sense "we'll take care of them".

[papasmurf]

It's posts like this I love. What a character!

 :hattip

My mother feared nothing and no-one, she spent most of her life tilting at windmills, and sometimes winning.

When people tell me I am a difficult bastard I tell them it is hereditary, you should have met my mother.

She also kept her head in emergencies, when home births were the norm, my mother saved one of my aunties life.

My aunty haemorrhaged very badly giving birth, the midwife panicked, my mother threw the mid-wife out of the way (literally) and dealt with the situation.