Why can't our managers manage anything?

[Baron von Lotsov]

Everything you say is 100% correct. The problem lies in the salesperson who earns £8.50 an hour and doesn't give a toss about how successful the business is. Maggie introduced  "Sharesave" a tax incentive that rewarded employees on the success of the company. As soon as Blair got in it went. Perhaps that is the sort of capitalism we need !

Thanks for the compliment. Yes I do think it is good for staff to own shares in their own firm if it is a firm that has shares on offer, because they know best everything to know about how the business is, and so decisions would be sensible. Institutional investors do not understand the particular type of firm they invest in, so they are short-term and this is bad.



Anyhow the idea of capitalism is you don't waste money trying to distort the market as this is bad for everyone. You invest in the product or service, so higher investment in that gives real returns, so you can pay your staff well. I think technology is very important as well. The more you can automate the less will be the wage bill, but for those working they can be paid at a higher rate. The others are then freed up so they can work in some other market. I like the way Aldi work and there are some good examples in other German industry. It's not surprising Germany is a pretty rich country relative to most of the world.

[Wiggles]

Yes well I agree the happiness of the staff and cooperation between staff is essential to serve the customer, and of course the customer will pick up on it quicker than you might imagine. The customer might decide even to punish the firm, thinking, I'm not going to shop here if they treat their staff like that. Happy staff make the customer happy, but I think what is underplayed is not the people management stuff but the technique on how you are going to deliver the service or product to the customer. You want to do it in the most efficient way you can possibly do it so that you can supply it for the lowest cost, and that is the number one thing that makes the customer smile, as per knowing he has a good deal. The other thing is service. If the firm can go the extra mile in times when the customer really needs help then the customer will remember that, and reward the firm with loyal support for years to come, and probably mention to many other buyers that they are an excellent firm. Where I see many firms fail is they have a strict system. It's an unintelligent system where it works like clockwork according to some designer far away, not taking into account all the unexpected things that happen in life. If the staff were a bit smarter they could handle detail to fit more exactly to customer requirements.



You've got to be wary of best selling author types with an American accent who take doors off people's rooms to make them more approachable. Lack of privacy can be psychologically damaging. The jargon term is "defensible space". The boss would see the removal of the door as a chink in the armour. The idiot has not got a clue about psychology and such trendy rubbish can do far more harm than good, even if it works with the textbook example. You know that one. It's a bit like the example commission you could earn on double glazing sales jobs.



Anyhow it has got to be filling the customer's needs, and first you need to know exactly what the customer most wants, and understand that is the most valuable thing to him. The closer you match customer requirements with what you can provide the more efficient you will be in the customer's eyes, hence every time you can't meet his exact needs you've got to mark it down and work out why not and try and fix that issue. You might need to modify the design of the operation slightly. You've got to get quantitative feedback where you can. What percentage of sales have comeback. Keep an eye on the figure and drive it down. besides a happy customer helps make it an enjoyable experience for all those staff who have to face the customer.

Everything you say is 100% correct. The problem lies in the salesperson who earns £8.50 an hour and doesn't give a toss about how successful the business is. Maggie introduced  "Sharesave" a tax incentive that rewarded employees on the success of the company. As soon as Blair got in it went. Perhaps that is the sort of capitalism we need !

[Baron von Lotsov]

No, the most important thing a manager does is to ensure the internal customer is happy, motivated, and trained. The internal customer is the member of staff. The external customer will never be satisfied if the internal customer isn't doing their job correctly. Honestly, I spent many years being trained on such things, and holding work shops as a result.



Cheap supermarkets are renowned for their harsh management style and lack of staff care. I once worked for Richard Kirk (google him) and he turned around the company culture. He actually removed the doors from the directors officers so they became more approachable, but kept the door on the board room for confidential matters. He introduced a no blame culture, which meant problems were sorted, rather than people being whipped for their lack of knowledge. It's amazing how productivity can be increased, and how staff retention can be improved by quality management training and a good culture. Regrettably most companies have little interest in their staffs happiness. If it can't be measured on a spreadsheet, it doesn't exist I am affraid

Yes well I agree the happiness of the staff and cooperation between staff is essential to serve the customer, and of course the customer will pick up on it quicker than you might imagine. The customer might decide even to punish the firm, thinking, I'm not going to shop here if they treat their staff like that. Happy staff make the customer happy, but I think what is underplayed is not the people management stuff but the technique on how you are going to deliver the service or product to the customer. You want to do it in the most efficient way you can possibly do it so that you can supply it for the lowest cost, and that is the number one thing that makes the customer smile, as per knowing he has a good deal. The other thing is service. If the firm can go the extra mile in times when the customer really needs help then the customer will remember that, and reward the firm with loyal support for years to come, and probably mention to many other buyers that they are an excellent firm. Where I see many firms fail is they have a strict system. It's an unintelligent system where it works like clockwork according to some designer far away, not taking into account all the unexpected things that happen in life. If the staff were a bit smarter they could handle detail to fit more exactly to customer requirements.



You've got to be wary of best selling author types with an American accent who take doors off people's rooms to make them more approachable. Lack of privacy can be psychologically damaging. The jargon term is "defensible space". The boss would see the removal of the door as a chink in the armour. The idiot has not got a clue about psychology and such trendy rubbish can do far more harm than good, even if it works with the textbook example. You know that one. It's a bit like the example commission you could earn on double glazing sales jobs.



Anyhow it has got to be filling the customer's needs, and first you need to know exactly what the customer most wants, and understand that is the most valuable thing to him. The closer you match customer requirements with what you can provide the more efficient you will be in the customer's eyes, hence every time you can't meet his exact needs you've got to mark it down and work out why not and try and fix that issue. You might need to modify the design of the operation slightly. You've got to get quantitative feedback where you can. What percentage of sales have comeback. Keep an eye on the figure and drive it down. besides a happy customer helps make it an enjoyable experience for all those staff who have to face the customer.

[Wiggles]

Well the staff beg to differ. After reading so many comments you start to notice with Aldi that the same points cycle around and around, and fairness was mentioned quite a few times, and no one complaining of unfairness. This is in stark contrast to the customer services department of Numatic International Ltd where the supervisor was said to favour some staff and make life hell for the others. He was close mates with the manager above him, so the likely thing is the manager picked the supervisor who was his mate and so any staff complaining to the manger just get ignored. However, not wishing to be unfair to the company here, I will point out that in other departments they get much better press. It may well be that the firm themselves would love to see the back of this guy giving all the trouble, but employment laws probably prevent them. Employment tribunals cost firms a fortune. It's their worst nightmare since awards can high, and legal costs are always expensive.



By the way, the most important thing a manager does is to serve the customer.

No, the most important thing a manager does is to ensure the internal customer is happy, motivated, and trained. The internal customer is the member of staff. The external customer will never be satisfied if the internal customer isn't doing their job correctly. Honestly, I spent many years being trained on such things, and holding work shops as a result.



Cheap supermarkets are renowned for their harsh management style and lack of staff care. I once worked for Richard Kirk (google him) and he turned around the company culture. He actually removed the doors from the directors officers so they became more approachable, but kept the door on the board room for confidential matters. He introduced a no blame culture, which meant problems were sorted, rather than people being whipped for their lack of knowledge. It's amazing how productivity can be increased, and how staff retention can be improved by quality management training and a good culture. Regrettably most companies have little interest in their staffs happiness. If it can't be measured on a spreadsheet, it doesn't exist I am affraid

[Baron von Lotsov]

I once did a week long management course. One of the exercises involved naming as many management qualities as possible. Between the dozen of us we came up with over a 100 of them. The instructor wanted us to eliminate each quality until we arrived at the single most import one. He told us the answer is always the same, and had it written on a piece of paper.  Well, I bet your dying to know what it is, FAIRNESS. This is exactly what the managers of Aldi  don't have

Well the staff beg to differ. After reading so many comments you start to notice with Aldi that the same points cycle around and around, and fairness was mentioned quite a few times, and no one complaining of unfairness. This is in stark contrast to the customer services department of Numatic International Ltd where the supervisor was said to favour some staff and make life hell for the others. He was close mates with the manager above him, so the likely thing is the manager picked the supervisor who was his mate and so any staff complaining to the manger just get ignored. However, not wishing to be unfair to the company here, I will point out that in other departments they get much better press. It may well be that the firm themselves would love to see the back of this guy giving all the trouble, but employment laws probably prevent them. Employment tribunals cost firms a fortune. It's their worst nightmare since awards can high, and legal costs are always expensive.



By the way, the most important thing a manager does is to serve the customer.

[Wiggles]

Oh, by the way, for a matter of interest I went to the same set of comments on Aldi to see what they were saying. There are millions of comments, so I'll mention the main points.



It's hard work - no sitting about, you are timed on speed, e.g. how long it takes you to do a pallet.



Staff and management are very friendly and reasonable - no problems on a personal level.



Aldi do not care whether you are a  60 year old women or an athletic 18 year-old lad, you get the same work to do, and for some it can be physically demanding.



Some people wimp out on the first day as they are not used to the pace. It's said to sort the men from the boys.



It pays well, but it is not into paying inflated rates for "holiday work" although it does have a higher rate for night work.



If you put the time and effort in and are a good lad you have much opportunity for progression. Aldi are encouraging in this sense. They like to help you help yourself into better jobs.



It's fair.





So there you go. Aldi is hard work and good money, watched closely but that's a double-edged sword. if you are a slacker then they will know, but if you put more work in than than everyone else they will also know, and on knowing that you will be first in line for promotion. It's a results company. I personally think the above is all sound capitalist principles, bearing in mind you go to work to earn money and not to extend your social life.

I once did a week long management course. One of the exercises involved naming as many management qualities as possible. Between the dozen of us we came up with over a 100 of them. The instructor wanted us to eliminate each quality until we arrived at the single most import one. He told us the answer is always the same, and had it written on a piece of paper.  Well, I bet your dying to know what it is, FAIRNESS. This is exactly what the managers of Aldi  don't have

[Wiggles]

I can tell why our managers are so bad at managing. I am a retired senior retailer, and was lucky enough to have undergone endless amounts of management training, something most managers haven't. In short, the majority of promotions are based on how well somebody does their present job, NOT how well they could handle the promotion. The higher one travels up the ladder, the better the man manager they need to be. Of course, if it's your own company there is little anyone else can do about it. Knowing when to delegate, and knowing when to empower is vital, and this where so many managers fail. Being organised is essential, as well being prepared to take risks. Finally, always be prepared to copy somebody else's work, and listen to those who work for you.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Oh, by the way, for a matter of interest I went to the same set of comments on Aldi to see what they were saying. There are millions of comments, so I'll mention the main points.



It's hard work - no sitting about, you are timed on speed, e.g. how long it takes you to do a pallet.



Staff and management are very friendly and reasonable - no problems on a personal level.



Aldi do not care whether you are a  60 year old women or an athletic 18 year-old lad, you get the same work to do, and for some it can be physically demanding.



Some people wimp out on the first day as they are not used to the pace. It's said to sort the men from the boys.



It pays well, but it is not into paying inflated rates for "holiday work" although it does have a higher rate for night work.



If you put the time and effort in and are a good lad you have much opportunity for progression. Aldi are encouraging in this sense. They like to help you help yourself into better jobs.



It's fair.





So there you go. Aldi is hard work and good money, watched closely but that's a double-edged sword. if you are a slacker then they will know, but if you put more work in than than everyone else they will also know, and on knowing that you will be first in line for promotion. It's a results company. I personally think the above is all sound capitalist principles, bearing in mind you go to work to earn money and not to extend your social life.

[Baron von Lotsov]

As a child I had a jigsaw puzzle, and it was a map of Blighty. The piece which was Cornwall had this dish on it. I wondered for years what was down there. Thanks for filling me in. I'd never have guessed it was a load of bodged wiring and an circus of arseholes shouting orders. I thought it was something special, like a Jodrell Bank or similar. You get these childhood dreams of Blighty being a place of adventure and opportunity.

[johnofgwent]

Well....



The research group I was part of before Maggie gave me a P45 had this idea about extracting an enzyme from bull semen to kick arse in the capillaries of a heart attack victim. Long story but it went on extended trials in 1992.



Which is why ....



My first contract was with an offshoot of Hughes Aircraft. Their American managers came up through the ranks and had detailed knowledge of their goods and services. When we installed a system at goonhilly (god, those were the days!!) there was a god awful bang and flash as we plugged in the first key modular card into the server rack....



I was working in a sort of pit with two other hardware guys.



Before I knew what was happening the American head of dept and his Hughes Board level manager had both literally leaped into the pit and were operating the fire extinguishers. Above us the UK manager just stood there like a flounder.



Over the next hour both American guys worked alongside us with meters, screwdrivers and wrenches tracing every cable, proved the installers had totally f****d up the wiring were entirely to blame.



They then rewired the cabinets properly while we waited for a courier to fetch replacement hardware.



We went online six hours later than planned.



The British MD of the outfit .... Was f**king useless.



About a year later he had a cardiac. I was intrigued to note the paramedics stuck him with some new drug they were trialling before packing him off to intensive care ..



.... And all I could think was "we worked all that time to save this miserable scrap of worthless shite ...."

[Baron von Lotsov]

I just had a look at a firm near (well not actually near but said to be in my town by a recruitment firm!) to us. It wanted someone to design an autonomous vacuum cleaner. I thought, hmm that sounds like a job that might be interesting, except the fact that like usual where it specifies itself out of the market, where it wanted loads of experience in autonomous vehicle design. Well like hell they are going to find someone like that, but anyhow, I take a look at what the other people who work there say.



The first one was a glowing report by a new recruit.



This is the second onwards. I'm just sampling bit of comments here.

"Very dull and repetitive work that is made worse by a supervisor who knows absolutely nothing about the products or systems and procedures and the manager whom has been with the business a couple of years is a bully and doesn't care about his staff"



"I do not feel like I am treated fairly or that I have a voice.

The Customer Care Centre Manager has an a tendency to lose his rag and can be aggressive which can be very intimidating for myself and my colleagues.

I do not feel like I can speak to my supervisor about this as they have a very close relationship so I fear I will be targeted if I make a complaint.

Hopefully I can leave when I find a nicer job."



"I have seen many years come and go as part of the customer care centre/ sales department but none of the years I witnessed have been as bad as the last 2.

The change of management has led to numerous political issues and selfish attitudes which has broken the team spirit.



The customer care centre manager only supports the ones he likes and fails to treat people fairly while the supervisor is stubborn and more interested in being a friend to the young members of the team.



I only stay due to the salary.



Avoid if you can."





"For such a big company the frailties in the management is bizarre.



The sales team supervisor and manager lack any form of leadership and inbed a real culture of dictatorship.



Friends to your face but quick to stab you in the back.



Avoid this company/department if you want to be treated fairly with respect."

Poor guys. I bet they feel like slaves. I'd only want to work in a firm where they had competent managers, because incompetent ones take it all out on the staff.

[Baron von Lotsov]

Every time I have  been to that shop I have been served by a human on a till within minutes, and often straight away.



You see the Germans have some intelligence, so their staff fill shelves and do the till. Rather than waiting at an empty till, they stack the shelves until the electronic sensor says to them that someone is waiting at the till.



 So bloody easy to suss, and yet it can not be done this way by the British.



The question is why are they so useless? Morrisons is particularly bad. I'd shop in Tesc0s if it were not so over-priced and vile-tasting. I can't comment on Sainsburys or Waitrose  since we do not have one, but from where I'm at, I see incompetence. In Morrisons half the shelves are often empty in the fresh fruit and veg. In Aldi they are rarely empty, and they are cheaper and better produce. So what happens is i change my main shop to Aldi and do my week's shopping there. They have won.It is what it is all about. If the customer is in your shop then you're going to stay in business.

[cromwell]

I'm completely in the dark on this matter. .

Really,you don't say

It has got so bad now that our monkeys are having trouble managing shops. So for shops we have the Germans saying, here you go, we'll show you

Funny that Aldi micromanage all their overseas operations,the Brit management argued for more autonomy,HQ Deutschland were reluctant but these monkeys proved so successful they said sure you run it.

[Baron von Lotsov]

No ideas why?

[Baron von Lotsov]

I'm completely in the dark on this matter. I try and stay away from British managers, not wishing to be personally managed by them in the least, hence I get the stories second-hand mostly. I know they are on the whole useless though because one can tell by the results.



Lets look at how it is in business in the UK. Up and don't the country business varies, and I see it much like the old farming problem. Some land is easy to grow anything on and other land is not, but some crops can still grow. Like for example you would not be able to set up an Intel processor design subsidiary here in this very town because most are as technically backward as the stone age, so that kind of crop would never grow here, although say a haulage business could survive, and is indeed one of our local large employers.



Now some people say Britain can not make cars any more now our empire has dwindled. We had a globally protected industry during the empire, but then it is said we just can't face the competition, now it is more level. That turned out to be wrong though. We have seen the Indians revitalise Jaguar and Nissan have been dong a roaring trade up in Northumberland. They were paying 40k salaries a few years back for factory workers. Not bad eh? More than some managers even.



Of course there is a world of difference between managing a haulage firm and mass producing cars. Cars are incredibly complicated things to manufacture. Our managers can manage lories gong from A to B, just as they can manage simple shops, but if we were to move on to anything more complicated, it's not us lot doing it. We have Japs, we have Americans, and we now see more Chinese moving in to run things. It has got so bad now that our monkeys are having trouble managing shops. So for shops we have the Germans saying, here you go, we'll show you.



Surely to fix the economy we need to fix managers. If we had good managers we might even be able to farm South Wales in the industrial analogy. That would be a Challenge Anika And a Half - to manage a town of smak addicts and get air conditioner units out of the other end of the building. That's grand master manager level, but for now our managers don't get it with keeping shelves stocked up, or to manage tills so they have staff working on them and so on. The electronic tills regularly get the price wrong!!