Mrs Thatcher Vs The Miners

[papasmurf]

Agreed but that's not what I'm saying. He set about the demise of a very large section of the working class who then retrained in other jobs.

Retrained? They were left to rot.

[Borchester]

Thats not the point im making to nick borkie.

Nor the point I was making Tommy. My point was that if we look at any event later than last night it is always through rose tinted lens tinged with beer fumes and coal dust.

[Thomas]

Agreed but that's not what I'm saying. He set about the demise of a very large section of the working class who then retrained in other jobs. Those miners would have never voted anything except Labour, now they have different jobs and it is fairly clear they have different political views.

Again im not sure thats true nick.

Employment down the mines had been falling sharply for half a century before scargills antics, and what are we talking about... a mere 150 000 miners involved  , a tiny fraction of the uk workforce in the mid 80`s?

The old traditional jobs done by the working class like miners had long been disappearing before scargill and the miners strikes , and im not sure retraining from coal miner to office worker for example would necessarily reshape your political views.

The labour parties demise and current misfortune has many ingredients involved as i said , but im not sure the miners strike and arthur scargill is that prominent in that demise as you make out.

Many people have left the labour party across the uk and stopped voting for them that still retain many of the old socialist ideals as they have always done.

The famous quote by the scottish trade union activist jimmy reid who i mentioned above summed up what many felt over the last 30 years...

" i never left labour. Labour left me."

I think there is a lot of truth in that , and also  the fact the closest labour have come back to power was in 2017 , with an avowed socialst at the helm putting forward socialst polices in the main that seemed to go down well with joe public espcailly in england.

Whatever labour are currently doing wrong , blairite politics seem to be at the thick of it rather than the people being against socialism.

Boris johnson is more of a socialist than keir starmer and co.

[Thomas]

Spotty arsed kid.

My brother in law was a collie and the best of men. He was and is nobody's fool, but Artie had told him that the massed ranks of the proletariat were only waiting for the chance to rise up and smash the capitalist boss class and he believed it. And I reckoned that he had problems enough without me pointing out that every small businessman or woman that I knew bloody well loathed Scargill and the miners and that the strike was piling up votes for the Tories.

People believe what they want to believe, but it does not make it so.

Thats not the point im making to nick borkie.

Scargill was nothng but a petty wee man full of his own self importance and delusions of grandeur. The late great jimmy reid , scottish trade union activist told him he was being set up for a fall by thatcher and was playing the game she had set for him , he wouldnt listen , and this in part led to reid being called all sorts for not jumping on the back of the brothers and sisters latest knee jerk bandwagon.

The labour parties fall has been long in the making , much of it people like myself , cromwell and deppity dawg , all former labour voters on this forum , have discussed and went into in great detail and im sorry to say scargill doesnt get a mention.

[Nick]

I dont think many young or middle aged people across the yookay wont vote labour because of arthur scargill

Agreed but that's not what I'm saying. He set about the demise of a very large section of the working class who then retrained in other jobs. Those miners would have never voted anything except Labour, now they have different jobs and it is fairly clear they have different political views.

[Nick]

And it's clear that despite the denials scargill was right they intended to decimate the mining industry and their communities,scargill  might have been a pillock but it's obvious there were other greater pillocks around this issue.

I hated thatcher and never thought I could despise a politician as much....then along came Bliar.

Right!!

You're saying he was right to hold an illegal strike? 2 years after Maggie just capitulated and gave in, didn't that rings any bells for Scargill that Maggie just gave in and gave him what he wanted?

There then followed 2 years of the country stock piling coal and training the police in strike control, Scargill decided to strike during the hottest summer in ages, the man got nothing right. Miners were already earning double what the average man was getting.

The NUM had brought 2 consecutive governments to their knees, she wasn't going to let it happen to her

[HDQQ]

I hated thatcher and never thought I could despise a politician as much....then along came Bliar.

. . . then along came Farage. I can't think of any other UK political figure outside of Parliament whose done more damage to our country than him. Maybe Scargill, but only time will tell.

[Borchester]

I can barely remember scargill and the miners stike , and i am one of the younger folk on this forum .

Spotty arsed kid.

My brother in law was a collie and the best of men. He was and is nobody's fool, but Artie had told him that the massed ranks of the proletariat were only waiting for the chance to rise up and smash the capitalist boss class and he believed it. And I reckoned that he had problems enough without me pointing out that every small businessman or woman that I knew bloody well loathed Scargill and the miners and that the strike was piling up votes for the Tories.

People believe what they want to believe, but it does not make it so.

[Thomas]

Ay up Thomas things picking up for you as we begin to come out of this pandemic?

Anyway Bliar and Thatcher very much alike,both saw themselves as pm in a messianic way ( or should that be maniacal?  ) Boris is different,sure he wanted to be PM ......been there done that got the t shirt but I guess he's already planning his departure.

very busy mate , im still around just dont have a lot of time for posting at the minute.

[Thomas]

Interesting to look back on this and realise how clear it is that Scargill ultimately set about the demise of Labour.

im not sure thats true nick. I think you are letting your own political prejudice cloud your analysis of labours current misfortune.

I can barely remember scargill and the miners stike , and i am one of the younger folk on this forum .

I dont think many young or middle aged people across the yookay wont vote labour because of arthur scargill and the miners strike. I think labours problems as has once again been discussed many a time are a complicated mish mash of many differeing issues , ranging from the dead end politics of blairism to a new and changing political world of an ever decreasing working class mindset.

The big political issues today are things like woke politics , brexit , scot indy  , immigration , climate change , not workers rights and strikes . When people like srb come on this forum and start blabbing on about the working time directive and the working class , it all seems so out of date and meaningless in todays world.

The working class , if they exist today , are more interested in booking thier next holiday , or buying the latest hybrid car , and instead of going down the labour club for a pint with the brothers and sisters after a hard shift down the pits , are off down the gym after a flexi time shift in the office.

Labours big problem is relevance in the modern world , and the fact they are constantly on the wrong side of public opinion in england and scotland.

[cromwell]

They voted for him and his party.

...and why did they do that? Brexit , and the anti democrats attempts to overturn it.

All so predictable , and we have analysed it over and over many times.

Face it pappy , there doesnt seem to be many people in your country England , nor across this "britain " you talk of , that share your political views.

can't see the socialist workers getting into power in these next few years pappy , but you can always live in hope.

Ay up Thomas things picking up for you as we begin to come out of this pandemic?

Anyway Bliar and Thatcher very much alike,both saw themselves as pm in a messianic way ( or should that be maniacal?  ) Boris is different,sure he wanted to be PM ......been there done that got the t shirt but I guess he's already planning his departure.

[Thomas]

Now Bojo-The-Clown.  I have to wonder what collective sin the citizens of Britain have done to deserve such a harsh punishment.

They voted for him and his party.

...and why did they do that? Brexit , and the anti democrats attempts to overturn it.

All so predictable , and we have analysed it over and over many times.

Face it pappy , there doesnt seem to be many people in your country England , nor across this "britain " you talk of , that share your political views.

Cant see the socialist workers getting into power in these next few years pappy , but you can always live in hope.

[papasmurf]

I hated thatcher and never thought I could despise a politician as much....then along came Bliar.

Now Bojo-The-Clown.  I have to wonder what collective sin the citizens of Britain have done to deserve such a harsh punishment.

[cromwell]

Interesting to look back on this and realise how clear it is that Scargill ultimately set about the demise of Labour.

And it's clear that despite the denials scargill was right they intended to decimate the mining industry and their communities,scargill  might have been a pillock but it's obvious there were other greater pillocks around this issue.

I hated thatcher and never thought I could despise a politician as much....then along came Bliar.

[Nick]

Interesting to look back on this and realise how clear it is that Scargill ultimately set about the demise of Labour.