Marriage age to be raised to 18 if Sajid's bill goes through

[Sampanviking]

Then that's not an arranged marriage is it?

No it is not. Arranged marriage is not the same as going to a Dating. Introduction or Marriage Bureau, even if on the face of it, it can work through Agencies that look similar.
There are huge differences
The biggest being that it is the Family that decides on the suitability of suitors and not the girl herself.
All the family is interested in, is that the boy comes from the right caste from the right community and is reasonably respectable and preferably well off.
All other considerations are null and void and whether the girl actually likes him regarded as irrelevant.
If the family have agreed the match in principle (and usually exchanged money in respect of) the girl although nominally allowed to accept or decline, is in fact subjected to massive pressure to accept, told that the family honour is at stake and threatened with being disowned if she does not accept. Given that these girls often have only had a fraction of the freedom and life choices of their western counterparts, this is a terrifying prospect for them and most will simply give in. Because she agrees under duress, this can still be passed off as an arranged marriage.

This is a relic of the Stone Age and any Civilised country would have dumped the practice at the end of the Dark Ages. The fact that still carries on in India, simply reinforces the fact that this is still a primitive and backwards third world country.
India I can do nothing about, but t is an absolute disgrace that it is allowed to carry on in the UK.
It exposes the utter hypocrisy of the UK's supposed concern for Human Rights. I can think of very few Human Rights more fundamental than that of a girl deciding who's D**k is going to be shoved into her for the rest of her life.

I am actually surprised and saddened to hear that hypocrisy being repeated by forum members, that I considered to be better than that.

[cromwell]

I think there is a great difference between a 'forced' and 'arranged' marriage. A girl I knew some years ago was in her mid 20s and Indian but very Western. She joked often about finding a husband and eventually actually asked for her parent's help. Some months later they presented their choice. She married in India, flying at least a dozen friends over for the festivities. They took over a shop here and within the year had a gorgeous baby boy.

I don't think her happiness was forced any more than I believe her marriage was. When talking about him she was impressed by how aligned they were in values/life aims. Was she 'in love' on her wedding day. I'm not so sure, but perhaps a foundation for something that can grow with the wedding being the start rather than the rollercoaster of marriage somehow being the end of something should be a consideration. Was she 'in love' when baby arrived? I suspect she was. I do feel there is an argument for marriages using the head as much, if not more, than the heart. if that means arranged then perhaps the input of someone outside in many cases would reduce the number of broken families.

Should marriage ages be changed? It's not that long since boys had to be 14 and girls 12 I believe with parental permission. Perhaps it's the parental permission that should be removed.

Then that's not an arranged marriage is it?

[johnofgwent]

I think there is a great difference between a 'forced' and 'arranged' marriage. A girl I knew some years ago was in her mid 20s and Indian but very Western. She joked often about finding a husband and eventually actually asked for her parent's help. Some months later they presented their choice. She married in India, flying at least a dozen friends over for the festivities. They took over a shop here and within the year had a gorgeous baby boy.

I don't think her happiness was forced any more than I believe her marriage was. When talking about him she was impressed by how aligned they were in values/life aims. Was she 'in love' on her wedding day. I'm not so sure, but perhaps a foundation for something that can grow with the wedding being the start rather than the rollercoaster of marriage somehow being the end of something should be a consideration. Was she 'in love' when baby arrived? I suspect she was. I do feel there is an argument for marriages using the head as much, if not more, than the heart. if that means arranged then perhaps the input of someone outside in many cases would reduce the number of broken families.

Should marriage ages be changed? It's not that long since boys had to be 14 and girls 12 I believe with parental permission. Perhaps it's the parental permission that should be removed.

Yeah, I'll go with that.


A chap I worked with was a serious beer drinker so therefore definitely Hindu as opposed to Moslem. We worked on the radar system we flogged to the Malaysians.


He came to the UK as a boy after Idi Amin chucked him and his mum and dad and grandad out.


In the UK he rebelled against his family and spurned the arranged marriage.....


He married someone he chose .... And it crashed and burned.


Incredibly, having split, he went back to his parents and a year later was back down the aisle with his arranged bride.


I met her at one of the project boozeups.....


Moira got on quite well with her. And later told me she'd brought up the subject of the "arranged" marriage .....
Apparently she fancied his arse something rotten ...


Ah well.

[T00ts]

I think there is a great difference between a 'forced' and 'arranged' marriage. A girl I knew some years ago was in her mid 20s and Indian but very Western. She joked often about finding a husband and eventually actually asked for her parent's help. Some months later they presented their choice. She married in India, flying at least a dozen friends over for the festivities. They took over a shop here and within the year had a gorgeous baby boy.

I don't think her happiness was forced any more than I believe her marriage was. When talking about him she was impressed by how aligned they were in values/life aims. Was she 'in love' on her wedding day. I'm not so sure, but perhaps a foundation for something that can grow with the wedding being the start rather than the rollercoaster of marriage somehow being the end of something should be a consideration. Was she 'in love' when baby arrived? I suspect she was. I do feel there is an argument for marriages using the head as much, if not more, than the heart. if that means arranged then perhaps the input of someone outside in many cases would reduce the number of broken families.

Should marriage ages be changed? It's not that long since boys had to be 14 and girls 12 I believe with parental permission. Perhaps it's the parental permission that should be removed.

[papasmurf]

Really? My own very bitter personal experience tells me very much otherwise.

Your personal experience is just that, personal, it does not extrapolate to the general situation.

[Sampanviking]

No it is you who are completely wrong and are making a very big cultural faux pas.

Really? My own very bitter personal experience tells me very much otherwise. My experience however is nothing compared to that of lady who was and still is the great love of my life and who found herself alone and on the receiving end of such an "arrangement".

[papasmurf]

No Pappy, on this you are completely wrong.

No it is you who are completely wrong and are making a very big cultural faux pas.

[Sampanviking]

Forced marriage is an entirely different matter to arranged marriage.

No Pappy, on this you are completely wrong.

[papasmurf]

He said the marriage thing is about forced marriage in certain communities,well they should make arranged marriages unlawful.

Forced marriage is an entirely different matter to arranged marriage.

[Sampanviking]

Funnily enough just been watching this on GB news and this very point came up,Javid then moved on to Begum and why she shouldn't be let back.
He said the marriage thing is about forced marriage in certain communities,well they should make arranged marriages unlawful.

There is no such thing as an arranged marriage, its  just a forced marriage where one party, usually the girl, is to frightened and browbeaten to complain.

[Barry]

He said the marriage thing is about forced marriage in certain communities,well they should make arranged marriages unlawful.

Quite.
As we have looked back through history researching our ancestry it has become apparent that a good proportion, probably the majority were of couples who had a bun in the oven. Nothing wrong with that, considered good to stop the young one being born out of wedlock.
Many of the marriages the bride was 15. Were they abused? Possibly, but more likely that in an age without TV and electric light, they were happier making meaningful relationships, than walking round plugged into a smart phone with earphones.

If it has to be changed, make the age of sexual consent also 18. And don't label the youth as paedophiles if they are having sex with willing post pubescent young women.

[cromwell]

Yes, I understand that


I wondered what the poison dwarf's attitude to this issue would be given their handing votes to children, and the history they have for marriage over the anvil at Gretna ...

Funnily enough just been watching this on GB news and this very point came up,Javid then moved on to Begum and why she shouldn't be let back.
He said the marriage thing is about forced marriage in certain communities,well they should make arranged marriages unlawful.

[johnofgwent]

nothing.

This bill is for england and wales only.

Yes, I understand that


I wondered what the poison dwarf's attitude to this issue would be given their handing votes to children, and the history they have for marriage over the anvil at Gretna ...

[Thomas]

What is Scotland doing ?

nothing.

This bill is for england and wales only.

[Barry]

If the objective is to stop child abuse, then they need to look towards Rotherham and anywhere else, where marriage had absolutely nothing to do with the gross offences of child abuse and rape.
More needs to be done to lock those offenders up, as abusers will always abuse.