Oh right careful, you might say something honest.

[johnofgwent]

You want to bring me into Barry? Fine I will play.
Blind Belief is all well and good, but the moment it starts to ignore real evidence based on facts, faith just becomes delusion.

I have given the facts and the evidence will full links countless times in other threads, but here is a summary

1) Fort Detrick in. Nobody is sure what actually causes these diseases as the US CDC will not release any postmortem details on any of the many

If such a body of actual facts existed in relation to the Chinese outbreak .....

The reason there are no records is simple

There are no CHINESE records of Tank Man.

China is a state in which people the state wish to disappear are dragged to vans never to appear again.

In short, unlike just about anywhere in the western world, if the university who were publishing research articles on coronaviruses in western scientific journals for quite a while had the sort of accident that killed Janet Parker in Birmingham, NO ONE would be left alive in public to say so


That's how they run the place.

[Sheepy]

You want to bring me into Barry? Fine I will play.
Blind Belief is all well and good, but the moment it starts to ignore real evidence based on facts, faith just becomes delusion.

I have given the facts and the evidence will full links countless times in other threads, but here is a summary

1) Fort Detrick in Maryland USA; the US main military bio warfare research lab, was closed down by Federal Government Order in August 2019, following poor operating procedures allowing a Toxic Release in July 2019. This is not me saying it, this is not Beijing saying, this is from the US Government.

2) There were multiple outbreaks of Respiratory Diseases in the vicinity of Fort Detrick which produced Pneumonia and other symptoms identical to those later attributed to Covid 19. This is not me saying it, this is not Beijing saying it, this is from the US Government. Nobody is sure what actually causes these diseases as the US CDC will not release any postmortem details on any of the many fatalities.

3) Blood samples taken by the Red Cross across America in the Autumn of 2019 were found to have up to Covid Antibodies in up to 4% of all the samples. This is not from me, this is not from Beijing, this is from the US Government.

4) The globally accepted timeline for the speed of unrestricted spread of Covid takes these antibody results back to case 1 event in July 2019. This is not me saying this, this is not Beijing saying this, this is the official data on the virus produced , accepted and used, by virologists world wide.

If such a body of actual facts existed in relation to the Chinese outbreak and the Wuhan Lab, it would have been headline news everyday for the entire pandemic. Because it relates to the US, nobody wants to talk about it. Instead these facts are ignored by the media and instead every conjectural fringe theory cooked up by the attention seeking re Wuhan is given prominent reporting.

It also ignores the other basic pertinent question. If the Chinese are responsible and it started there, how come they were able to contain so effectively, nationwide within a few months, whilst in the West, despite no shortage of warnings and preparation time, the virus is still running out of control?

Now you see Barry, by following the facts, I at least maintain a consistent position. You don't! One minute its a a toxic bio warfare weapon released by the Chinese to poison the world. The next, its just a hoax, being perpetrated by our own Governments against us, for reasons only Sheepy seem able to divine 
Its one or the other Barry, you can't have both.

I do incidentally have an answer as to why the Chinese could contain the virus and we couldn't. The truth I suspect is that it was released in the States back in July 2019 and it was already running rampant and out of control in the West and much of the rest of the world before it was identified in Wuhan as a new Coronavirus.
I had a uniquely horrible virus in January 2020 that matches many of the symptoms of Covid and know of many others who have said the same stretching back to December 2019.

Finally of course the USA has previous form on such things.
The Spanish Flu emerged in Kansas in early 1918 and went on to infect the whole world
in Spring 2009 a variant of the same H1N1 (Avian Flu) broke out in the US and was left to spread without the US Government making any effort to control or making any official notification to any global body. They just let it rip and it still kills thousands each year.

Of course none of this listed evidence is conclusive, but there is a weight of evidence in respect of the US, where there is absolutely none in respect of China.

No need to bring you into it SPV for a fact, there are underhanded dealings afoot.

[Sheepy]

They will never admit they let the virus out, it would cost them trillions in damages.

The problem is nobody wants to take the rap, the Americans and the Chinese have both put out cover stories blaming the other party. One thing for sure somebody knows plenty they ain't telling.

[Sampanviking]

Fair play, SPV, good reply which I probably deserved. 

You didn't say why China said it arrived from Australia on frozen steak. (This was about December 2020 China made that claim, which appeared to be retaliation for Australia requesting a WHO led enquiry)

Thanks Barry

I never took the Australia steak argument seriously and never believed anyone was supposed to. I always assumed it was just to diplomats saying "so nerrr" to each other.

[Barry]

Fair play, SPV, good reply which I probably deserved. 

You didn't say why China said it arrived from Australia on frozen steak. (This was about December 2020 China made that claim, which appeared to be retaliation for Australia requesting a WHO led enquiry)

[Sampanviking]

Anyway, you are saying that "Accidents happen" expecting that the Chinese will take the opportunity to fess up.
Well, SPV has got all the official line sorted out from China:
i.e. it started in America. 
Except when Australia started asking questions then it was sent over from Australia. 
Attack is the best form of defence. They will never admit they let the virus out, it would cost them trillions in damages.

You want to bring me into Barry? Fine I will play.
Blind Belief is all well and good, but the moment it starts to ignore real evidence based on facts, faith just becomes delusion.

I have given the facts and the evidence will full links countless times in other threads, but here is a summary

1) Fort Detrick in Maryland USA; the US main military bio warfare research lab, was closed down by Federal Government Order in August 2019, following poor operating procedures allowing a Toxic Release in July 2019. This is not me saying it, this is not Beijing saying, this is from the US Government.

2) There were multiple outbreaks of Respiratory Diseases in the vicinity of Fort Detrick which produced Pneumonia and other symptoms identical to those later attributed to Covid 19. This is not me saying it, this is not Beijing saying it, this is from the US Government. Nobody is sure what actually causes these diseases as the US CDC will not release any postmortem details on any of the many fatalities.

3) Blood samples taken by the Red Cross across America in the Autumn of 2019 were found to have up to Covid Antibodies in up to 4% of all the samples. This is not from me, this is not from Beijing, this is from the US Government.

4) The globally accepted timeline for the speed of unrestricted spread of Covid takes these antibody results back to case 1 event in July 2019. This is not me saying this, this is not Beijing saying this, this is the official data on the virus produced , accepted and used, by virologists world wide.

If such a body of actual facts existed in relation to the Chinese outbreak and the Wuhan Lab, it would have been headline news everyday for the entire pandemic. Because it relates to the US, nobody wants to talk about it. Instead these facts are ignored by the media and instead every conjectural fringe theory cooked up by the attention seeking re Wuhan is given prominent reporting.

It also ignores the other basic pertinent question. If the Chinese are responsible and it started there, how come they were able to contain so effectively, nationwide within a few months, whilst in the West, despite no shortage of warnings and preparation time, the virus is still running out of control?

Now you see Barry, by following the facts, I at least maintain a consistent position. You don't! One minute its a a toxic bio warfare weapon released by the Chinese to poison the world. The next, its just a hoax, being perpetrated by our own Governments against us, for reasons only Sheepy seem able to divine 
Its one or the other Barry, you cant have both.

I do incidentally have an answer as to why the Chinese could contain the virus and we couldn't. The truth I suspect is that it was released in the States back in July 2019 and it was already running rampant and out of control in the West and much of the rest of the world before it was identified in Wuhan as a new Coronavirus.
I had a uniquely horrible virus in January 2020 that matches many of the symptoms of Covid and know of many others who have said the same stretching back to December 2019.

Finally of course the USA has previous form on such things.
The Spanish Flu emerged in Kansas in early 1918 and went on to infect the whole world
in Spring 2009 a variant of the same H1N1 (Avian Flu) broke out in the US and was left to spread without the US Government making any effort to control or making any official notification to any global body. They just let it rip and it still kills thousands each year.

Of course none of this listed evidence is conclusive, but there is a weight of evidence in respect of the US, where there is absolutely none in respect of China.

[Barry]

Anyway, you are saying that "Accidents happen" expecting that the Chinese will take the opportunity to fess up.
Well, SPV has got all the official line sorted out from China:
i.e. it started in America. 
Except when Australia started asking questions then it was sent over from Australia. 
Attack is the best form of defence. They will never admit they let the virus out, it would cost them trillions in damages.

[Sheepy]

Moderator Notice

Sheepy:
I've asked you nicely by PM to title your threads sensibly. Now I'm asking you publicly.
I can't be bothered to rename your threads so please take some note.

Oh, my humblest apologies Barry, I thought this was the twilight zone.

[Barry]

Moderator Notice

Sheepy:
I've asked you nicely by PM to title your threads sensibly. Now I'm asking you publicly.
I can't be bothered to rename your threads so please take some note.

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/lab-accidents-happen-who-calls-for-more-transparency-from-china-about-covid-origins/ar-AAMcCyp?ocid=msedgntp