Time to move on ?

[Thomas]

Like tony blair , emmanuel macron sold himself to both left and right in france ,promised much but delivered little , and his approval ratings are less than half what he was elected on initially. Somewhere recently around 25% , with other polls showing as high as a mere 37 %.

The biggest single thing i have seen under macrons leadership which starkly corresponds with tony blairs legacy in the uk is apathy among french voters.

Macron , like his counterpart blair years previously , has massivley turned off the french voter.

Remember the millions blair lost in labour voters so much so that 11 years after labour were booted out of office his infamous legacy hamstrings the labour party to the point of obliteration to this day.

Macron looks like leaving a similar legacy of betrayal and abstention along with disgust. Surpisingly i have seen a growing but still minority attitude in France to eu membership with a growing number of frexiters.

I dont think le pen is going to win in france , but macron is definetly toast.

[Thomas]

How corrupt is French politics?

Nicolas Sarkozy trial fits a pattern of law-breaking to achieve, or retain, high office.

https://www.politico.eu/article/corrupt-trial-france-politics-former-french-president-nicolas-sarkozy/

France's familiarity with political scandals

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/france-and-its-political-scandals-7071636

[Thomas]

Not diversion, a fact, AZ was seen in the EU as not safe. The Eu were slow to approve it and that was because of the shambles AZ made of the clinical trials and results. The UK approved it early, gambling, it worked but it was a big gamble.
You can't slag off Macron for doing what most EU countries were also doing, being cautious with the AZ vaccine.

He may be finished and maybe for good reason, but this is not a reason.

I can slag off macron and i am. So are the french , on this very subject.

The eu in a wider point made a C@@@ of themselelves of vaccine procurement , and their inept strategy made them a laughing stock .

They admitted themsleves their strategy had been slow and foolish , so no sure why you are trying to spin differently now after the event. It was a political calamity that made them look slow and weak , a lumbering out of touch monolith widely criticied within the eu by its own citizens , while the uk and america for example ran out and powered ahead.

Going back to macron , there are a million and one things he is hated for in france, and everyone knows it , the point being he is seen on a par with blair in the uk hence my repeated point about politicians in the eu being as hated if not more for their shenanigans than the uk political class.

[Thomas]

Oh we have had plenty, but Bertie, Haughey and the likes are seen here as scum. Their careers were ended when their dealings were uncovered, people don't like speaking bad of the dead so Haughey gets a light touch. But in the UK Johnson, who has a trail of lies and deceit spanning his career, he is seen as a hero in England, why is that ?

so you agree with my point about english politicians being as good and bad as any other including yours or mine.? Excellent.

As for this..

But in the UK Johnson, who has a trail of lies and deceit spanning his career, he is seen as a hero in England, why is that ?

i cant speak for the english , but i have given you my opinion for what its worth on the matter many a time so im not re raking over the old coals yet again and repeating myself.

You know why.

[GerryT]

Diversion , you asked about what bullshit from macron and this is an example which you try and bat away by claiming it was the norm worldwide.

He has further inflamed and infuriated his own people to the point of riots and rebellion , and without doubt politically he is toast.

IE. an example of a corrupt venal leader within the eu who is hated by his own people ,so no the worlds ills dont start and stop with brexit and westmisnter .

Not diversion, a fact, AZ was seen in the EU as not safe. The Eu were slow to approve it and that was because of the shambles AZ made of the clinical trials and results. The UK approved it early, gambling, it worked but it was a big gamble.
You can't slag off Macron for doing what most EU countries were also doing, being cautious with the AZ vaccine.

He may be finished and maybe for good reason, but this is not a reason.

[Thomas]

Corruption is rotting the periphery of Europe
The continent's problems extend to troubled democracies beyond Hungary and Poland

https://www.ft.com/content/78ba92ed-94ef-47ce-9157-658e068cd814

European Parliament's school of scandals

Harassment, misuse of funds, spying — Brussels has seen it all.

https://www.politico.eu/article/mep-guide-2019-school-of-scandals-european-parliament/


couple of easily googled articles showing the eu and its political class are far from the honourable utopia and as bent as any uk politican and establishment despite gerrys attempt to spin to the contrary.

Defending the eu is one thing , attempting to paint them as holier than the uk is frankly laughable.

[GerryT]

im trying to think of all the irish political scandals over the years as per the previous discussion , never mind in France.

heres a few...

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/top-five-irish-scandals-of-the-decade-80132567-237677901

i remember the banking scandal , and the irish going mental about it , but i had forgotten bertie ahern and the various reports into catholic church abuse and political collusion and cover up.

https://westcorkpeople.ie/columnists/a-history-of-political-corruption-in-ireland/

loads of stuff out there , the irish hate their politicians almost as much as the french and us scottish .John of gwent normally takes top spot on this forum for his hatred of westmisnter .

Oh we have had plenty, but Bertie, Haughey and the likes are seen here as scum. Their careers were ended when their dealings were uncovered, people don't like speaking bad of the dead so Haughey gets a light touch. But in the UK Johnson, who has a trail of lies and deceit spanning his career, he is seen as a hero in England, why is that ?

[Thomas]

Most countries were doing that,

Diversion , you asked about what bullshit from macron and this is an example which you try and bat away by claiming it was the norm worldwide.

He has further inflamed and infuriated his own people to the point of riots and rebellion , and without doubt politically he is toast.

IE. an example of a corrupt venal leader within the eu who is hated by his own people ,so no the worlds ills dont start and stop with brexit and westmisnter .

[GerryT]

macron is a can't sheep whose days are numbered. The average frenchman thinks macron "is a dangerous man" who must be outed from office as soon as.

Another serial liar who pisses on his own peoples back like many uk politicians we could name.

A few months ago , he was playing politics with covid vaccines encouraging the french not to take the astrzenica one ,now he demands the french have thier two jabs of vaccine , any vaccine , to have a semblance of freedom from the chinese sniffles.

I would say macron is hated in France on a par with tony blair in the uk , and both similarly regarded as compulsive slimy liars so no sure about this holier than thou eu politician wheez gerry is attempting to spin.

Most countries were doing that, Ireland were, and for good reason. AZ didn't do their clinical trials correctly, they left out age groups, they gave incorrect doses etc... so countries like Ireland and you say France didn't allow AZ. Then the UK made their population guinea pigs and after a couple of months of injecting millions then the countries like IRla and France reviewed the outcome of the UK "clinical trial" and determined it safe for use. Some AZ doses manufactured in China weren't passed for use in the EU so until recently those batches were not recgonised in the EU.
You need to try alot harder if you think this is an example of Macron playing games. 

[Thomas]

I was replying to a post about EU politicians so I presume its EU and not country or Europeen.

ok thanks for clarifying and see my post earlier covering eu politicians.

What bullshit ?  the french love to march.

see my earlier example.

No she didn't, someone in the EU (I never say who released the notice that was withdrawn) threatened to trigger art16 and within hrs that was apologised for and that was the end of the matter. Unlike the UK that constantly talk of triggering art16 and seem to think its a piece of genius to do so.

ok , but the point being wether it was von der lying or whoever , the eu isnt above reproach either which is my point. No political class in any country or organisation is above reproach , so your insinuation the uk political class are in a league of thier own is rubbish.

Totally agree, good and bad everywhere. But to say the bar set by UK (English) politicians is the same as EU one's is a imaginative stretch, as claimed by Sheepy. The current crop are some bunch of incompetents.

we have our fair share in scotland as you do in ireland , so no its not just english .

[Sheepy]

Sheepwash said and I quote.

The EU is no less full of bullshit than our own politicians they are fronting exactly the same thing, the difference is we are smart enough to see it and admit it.

[Thomas]

I would only have to point out it is a never-ending treadmill anyway, as fast as the last buy goes up the shoot you have no choice but buy the next one. For sure it ain't making Claude's life a better place in the Longterm.

im trying to think of all the irish political scandals over the years as per the previous discussion , never mind in France.

heres a few...

Top five Irish scandals of the decade

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/top-five-irish-scandals-of-the-decade-80132567-237677901

i remember the banking scandal , and the irish going mental about it , but i had forgotten bertie ahern and the various reports into catholic church abuse and political collusion and cover up.

A history of political corruption in Ireland

https://westcorkpeople.ie/columnists/a-history-of-political-corruption-in-ireland/

loads of stuff out there , the irish hate their politicians almost as much as the french and us scottish .John of gwent normally takes top spot on this forum for his hatred of westmisnter .

[GerryT]

do you mean politicians within the eu or politicians specifically at brussells.?

I was replying to a post about EU politicians so I presume its EU and not country or Europeen.

Macron and his bullshit is a prime example of politicians being of the same stripe more or less the world over , and the french are extremely irate with him , with hundreds of thousands marching against him in the streets over his covid hypocrisy.

What bullshit ?  the french love to march.

We have discussed ineptitude at brussells over the years , with von der lying famously making a tit of her self over the spat regarding covid vaccines and northern ireland.

No she didn't, someone in the EU (I never say who released the notice that was withdrawn) threatened to trigger art16 and within hrs that was apologised for and that was the end of the matter. Unlike the UK that constantly talk of triggering art16 and seem to think its a piece of genius to do so.

Not sure what your point is , you remind me of another poster who used to go on defending tony blair abour iraq years after the public mood had long turned against him and he had ran out of office.

there are good and bad within the eu and many other countries and supra national organisations as we all know  , so no point trying to punt a holier than thou line regarding the eu simply because you dont accept brexit. The EU has its faults too , as tony blair and many other pro remain politicians have said repeatedly over the years.

No organistation nor its staff is ever perfect without flaw.

Totally agree, good and bad everywhere. But to say the bar set by UK (English) politicians is the same as EU one's is a imaginative stretch, as claimed by Sheepy. The current crop are some bunch of incompetents.

[Sheepy]

Come along Gerry, you must have had your orders from Brussels by now, this time filling is all very well.

[Sheepy]

its simply remainers continuing to run around throwing barriers in the road to de rail brexit at every opportunity , and when the barrier is smashed , the move onto the next one in a gradual never ending retreat.

I see nothing more has been said about chinese made goods in the eu from our earlier points?

I was just reading there china is the biggest single exporter into the eu , with the figures for 2020 showing a fifth of eu goods are chinese made , with the largest part being pre manufactured goods , vehicles and machinary , with chinese exports continuing to grow massivley year in year out , hence my point about the eu in large part being nothing more than a staging ground middle man forwarding on chinese goods to the uk.

On and on it goes.

Wonder what the new brexit bogeyman will be tomorrow? feckin hilarious.

I would only have to point out it is a never-ending treadmill anyway, as fast as the last buy goes up the shoot you have no choice but buy the next one. For sure it ain't making Claude's life a better place in the Longterm.