Irish dishonesty over vaccines

[Nick]

Stats can be totally misleading. But they can certainly be used to boost morale.
However, of the countries with higher Covid death rates per 1m, some were recording only 90 deaths in total — or equivalent to the number of residents in a few care homes. Others countries are way less developed than the UK with large poor and peasant populations, so we'd be justified in expecting the U.K. to repot better outcomes.
It's a valid argument that the UK's lateness in recognising the seriousness of Covid is responsible for thousands of early deaths...

A stat showing deaths per 1M population is in no way misleading, it's exactly what is says.

Not many underdeveloped countries in the list above the UK, plus the UK has been posting figures far in excess of actual COVID deaths with this stupid 28 day rule. In reality the figure is much lower at around 35K, based on ONS excess deaths of 7%.

[patman post]

Stats can be totally misleading. But they can certainly be used to boost morale.
However, of the countries with higher Covid death rates per 1m, some were recording only 90 deaths in total — or equivalent to the number of residents in a few care homes. Others countries are way less developed than the UK with large poor and peasant populations, so we'd be justified in expecting the U.K. to repot better outcomes.
It's a valid argument that the UK's lateness in recognising the seriousness of Covid is responsible for thousands of early deaths...

[Nick]

Like I say this isn't a story in IRL, only the UK. I did say what Varadkar did was wrong, but its in the halfpenny league compared to what the UK has been going on about with vaccines. I watched Newsnight last week and there was a full programme dedicated to boasting about how much vaccines the UK has administered and that was compared to countries all around the world, mostly countries that were far worse, why ?
Most countries within the EU would see the UK response to Covid as a total and complete disaster, with one of the worst death rates in the EU, and that's with an advanced vaccine roll out. The EU would ack the gamble with AZ did help the UK get ahead with the vaccine roll out. But what your forgetting is back in March the EU had exported over 77m vaccine doses, the UK at that stage got 21m from the EU. The UK meanwhile had exported zero vaccine doses. So yes the UK did get ahead of the game, through hoarding, something I would have thought UK people wouldn't be boasting about. And yes the EU contract with AZ was signed mid last yr BEFORE the UK signed a contract with AZ, all talk of contract obligations to supply the UK first were lies, a word used a lot with the UK.

There are 14 EU countries with a worse death rate than the U.K.: The rate being deaths /1M population.
As for vaccines, Ireland has done less than 6 million where as the U.K. has done 85 million.

[Thomas]

On the road to Polexit? Poland pushes back in battle against EU rule

Poland is locked in a legal battle with the European Union over the legitimacy of judicial and constitutional reforms exerted by its conservative ruling party that could trigger the possibility of Poland's exit from the EU bloc.
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Led by the populist Law and Justice Party (PiS), the Polish government has pushed widespread reforms it says are needed to fight corruption but critics say expand government powers and defy the democratic values upheld by EU law. Poland's abortion rights were overturned with a near-ban introduced in January, despite months of violent street protests, while LGBTQ groups and the freedom of speech of everyday citizens have also come under attack.

But differences between Warsaw and Brussels deepened Wednesday taking a more hostile turn as Poland's Constitutional Court defied a ruling by the European Union Court of Justice against Poland's controversial judicial reforms. Poland's Constitutional Court, the country's highest court, said the decision was "not in line" with the constitution.

The rift over the legitimacy of EU law first emerged in February 2020 when Poland passed new measures to prevent judges from referring cases to the European Court of Justice. Poland maintains that on domestic affairs to do with its judiciary and courts it is up to Polish authorities and legislation, and not Brussels, to decide

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210715-on-the-road-to-polexit-poland-pushes-back-in-battle-against-eu-rule?fbclid=IwAR3ArGGkKEW4CYBycKqepcfjXV9UFxYTS0f6ifThlIX2S4O79igNblWLN14

[Thomas]

Eu finally recognising the folly of merkels previous open border policy.

So fecking predictable .

The walls are going up across Europe
The EU is preparing for a militarised war on immigration

There is an irony to be discerned in the European Union's adoption of a series of fantasy bridges as a unifying symbol on its Euro banknotes: in reality, it is walls that are going up across the continent's eastern approaches, as European politicians brace themselves for the flow of refugees about to make the trek from Afghanistan. After 20 failed years of war, the American pullout from Afghanistan will probably see the Taliban controlling more of the country than it did on 9/11, including the former anti-Taliban heartlands of the Northern Alliance. With a median age of 18.4 — more than 40% of the country's 30 million population is less than 14 years old — most Afghans have lived their entire lives underneath Washington's imperial umbrella

But in any case, the Europe of 2021 is not the Europe of 2015, and Europe's leaders have no appetite for a return of the political turmoil that followed Merkel's experiment with open borders. Distracted by Brexit and imported American culture wars, Britain's remaining pro-EU contingent have neglected to follow the developing consensus on the continent, where the hard line on migration for which Viktor Orbán was lambasted by liberal commentators back in 2015 has now entered the political mainstream.

https://unherd.com/2021/07/the-walls-are-going-up-across-europe/

the feckin dublin agreement honestly gerry you are away with the feckin fairies .

Do you even travel to europe or know what actually is going on there?

The whole continent is up in arms about the brussel eurocrats open door policy on migration , its no longer just the italians , greeks or spansih , or even your retorts about little englanders , its now fast becoming mainstream policy in all euro countries as they finally wake up and smell the coffee.

[Thomas]

Good post on the wonderfull dublin agreement gerry espouses as a great loss to the uk after leaving the eu( from another forum...)

I think the Dublin agreement has been dead in the water for a number of years now. Fat Angie ran a coach and horses through it by unilaterally suspending it in 2015 and inviting one million Doctors, Scientists and Engineers to the fatherland. When she found out that not all of them were qualified in those subjects and that many were illiterate goat herders, that she tried to pass the latter on to other countries like the UK which to Camerons eternal credit- told her to do one.

Since then countries like Italy and Spain who are are the first to greet the new Europeans on their shores have complained that under Dublin they get lumbered with the problem and they should be shared by all EU countries. Brussels has agreed with this and stated that in the interest of EU solidarity refugees should be shared amongst all member states. The problem is that Viktor, he says "no" and his fellow bad boys (now the British have gone) have told Brussels 'they can stick that idea up their arrse.' Brussels has hummed and hawed and we are in a sort of limbo at the moment.

[Thomas]

Your post ignores the important fact that the EU signed its agreement with AstraZeneca AB, registered in Stockholm.

Gerrys posts often ignore pertinent pieces of information in his desperate drive to shoot down all things brexit related.

As i keep saying , i voted remain in 2016 , but even im becoming tired of the non stop rhetoric of those unable or unwilling to accept reality and losing with good grace.

[Thomas]

Your post ignores the important fact that the EU signed its agreement with AstraZeneca AB, registered in Stockholm. The UK signed its agreement with AstraZeneca (UK) Ltd, a company incorporated in Cambridge. And that there was also a legally binding  licensing, manufacturing and distribution agreement between the UK and AZ (UK) Ltd and Oxford University in May 2020. This May 2020 contract said that if the vaccine proved successful, AZ (UK) would make 30m does available first to the UK by September, with 70m more doses for the rest of the world. 
So far, no one has tested the primacy of the different agreements/contracts — one is subject to Belgian law, the other to English law. There are interpretations of meanings in these different contracts. So I guess we have to wait the outcome of legal proceedings...

my apologies , i see you have amended your post.

[Thomas]

i would have thought pat a simple thanks to gerrys post would have sufficed rather than a copy and paste without comment.

The bottom line is , as you know , and gerry tries to ignore , is that whatever the perception or agreement , johnson and the tory government can do no wrong with the uk , espcially the english   public .

Part of this is down to lack of any real oppostion who are taken seriously , and part down to the abject national hatred of the brussells eurocrats.

When johnsons luck is down , all he has to do is stick it to brussells and the english flock behind his banner.

South of the border and outside the m25 bubble , remainers seem to be as thin on the ground as labour party supporters on this forum.

Just broken down record player time over and over without any real progression or substantive political debate.

The uk wont be re joining nor doing any deals that invlove eu rules any time in the near future , and you dont need a crystal ball to be able to see that.

Gerry and sock puppets are merely pissing in the wind.

[Thomas]

While gerry goes on about out of date uk death rates due to covid , most lefties and remongers with a brain wont even mention it anymore as the uk doesnt evenfigure on the first page of covid deaths , but plenty of eu countries do.......

Sad  , we are reduced to point scoring over people s lives simply down to the lefties inability to accept democracy in 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[Thomas]

Like I say this isn't a story in IRL, only the UK.

how is it regarded as a story in the uk? The express has minimal daily sales in an ever falling newspaper market , and isnt even one of the top sellers.Its a non story .

Most countries within the EU would see the UK response to Covid as a total and complete disaster, with one of the worst death rates in the EU,

yawn what a load of rubbish.

The rates are not comparable as we have discussed many a time , wit the uk recording anything and everything as a covid death but germany for example recording only covid deaths and none with any co morbidty.

The uk vaccine response was highly regarded across the world despite your propaganda attmept gerry , while macron and others tried and failed to demonise astrazenica , the uk was out there whipping the rug from under the EU.

And yes the EU contract with AZ was signed mid last yr BEFORE the UK signed a contract with AZ, all talk of contract obligations to supply the UK first were lies, a word used a lot with the UK

the eu decided to dither on european citizens lives and take the cheap skate way while the uk and countries like the us paid top dollar , that was the issue with atrazenica.

Like i said gerry , a pr disaster of great magnatude for the eu ,while johnson came out looking and smelling of roses.

[patman post]

Like I say this isn't a story in IRL, only the UK. I did say what Varadkar did was wrong, but its in the halfpenny league compared to what the UK has been going on about with vaccines. I watched Newsnight last week and there was a full programme dedicated to boasting about how much vaccines the UK has administered and that was compared to countries all around the world, mostly countries that were far worse, why ?
Most countries within the EU would see the UK response to Covid as a total and complete disaster, with one of the worst death rates in the EU, and that's with an advanced vaccine roll out. The EU would ack the gamble with AZ did help the UK get ahead with the vaccine roll out. But what your forgetting is back in March the EU had exported over 77m vaccine doses, the UK at that stage got 21m from the EU. The UK meanwhile had exported zero vaccine doses. So yes the UK did get ahead of the game, through hoarding, something I would have thought UK people wouldn't be boasting about. And yes the EU contract with AZ was signed mid last yr BEFORE the UK signed a contract with AZ, all talk of contract obligations to supply the UK first were lies, a word used a lot with the UK.

Your post ignores the important fact that the EU signed its agreement with AstraZeneca AB, registered in Stockholm. The UK signed its agreement with AstraZeneca (UK) Ltd, a company incorporated in Cambridge. And that there was also a legally binding  licensing, manufacturing and distribution agreement between the UK and AZ (UK) Ltd and Oxford University in May 2020. This May 2020 contract said that if the vaccine proved successful, AZ (UK) would make 30m does available first to the UK by September, then 70m more doses for the rest of the world. 
So far, no one has tested the primacy of the different agreements/contracts — one is subject to Belgian law, the others to English law. There are interpretations of meanings in these different contracts. So I guess we have to wait the outcome of legal proceedings...

[cromwell]

Like I say this isn't a story in IRL, only the UK. I did say what Varadkar did was wrong, but its in the halfpenny league compared to what the UK has been going on about with vaccines. I watched Newsnight last week and there was a full programme dedicated to boasting about how much vaccines the UK has administered and that was compared to countries all around the world, mostly countries that were far worse, why ?
Most countries within the EU would see the UK response to Covid as a total and complete disaster, with one of the worst death rates in the EU, and that's with an advanced vaccine roll out. The EU would ack the gamble with AZ did help the UK get ahead with the vaccine roll out. But what your forgetting is back in March the EU had exported over 77m vaccine doses, the UK at that stage got 21m from the EU. The UK meanwhile had exported zero vaccine doses. So yes the UK did get ahead of the game, through hoarding, something I would have thought UK people wouldn't be boasting about. And yes the EU contract with AZ was signed mid last yr BEFORE the UK signed a contract with AZ, all talk of contract obligations to supply the UK first were lies, a word used a lot with the UK.

Not jackanory........gerrynory

[GerryT]

the uk took a better response to covid and vaccines than the eu and member states  , and this has been acknowledged within and without the eu over the last year or so.
Varadkar is just waffling on a load of shite and crowing to a shrinking voter base.
two wrongs dont make a right gerry , no one should be crowing anywhere and because someone alegedly did doesnt make it right for varadkar .
A non  story to be honest .

Like I say this isn't a story in IRL, only the UK. I did say what Varadkar did was wrong, but its in the halfpenny league compared to what the UK has been going on about with vaccines. I watched Newsnight last week and there was a full programme dedicated to boasting about how much vaccines the UK has administered and that was compared to countries all around the world, mostly countries that were far worse, why ?
Most countries within the EU would see the UK response to Covid as a total and complete disaster, with one of the worst death rates in the EU, and that's with an advanced vaccine roll out. The EU would ack the gamble with AZ did help the UK get ahead with the vaccine roll out. But what your forgetting is back in March the EU had exported over 77m vaccine doses, the UK at that stage got 21m from the EU. The UK meanwhile had exported zero vaccine doses. So yes the UK did get ahead of the game, through hoarding, something I would have thought UK people wouldn't be boasting about. And yes the EU contract with AZ was signed mid last yr BEFORE the UK signed a contract with AZ, all talk of contract obligations to supply the UK first were lies, a word used a lot with the UK.

[Thomas]

Yes a silly tweet by Leo, he is prone to that sort of gaff. But not like all the Irish are crowing about this. I'm not.  We did have to live with the English crowing for months, with many on here joining in, and many on UK TV boasting about the UK response to Covid and how it was a great brexit win. When in fact it had absolutely zero to do with covid.

the uk took a better response to covid and vaccines than the eu and member states  , and this has been acknowledged within and without the eu over the last year or so.

Varadkar is just waffling on a load of shite and crowing to a shrinking voter base.

two wrongs dont make a right gerry , no one should be crowing anywhere and because someone alegedly did doesnt make it right for varadkar .

A non  story to be honest .