I wonder how the EU really feels about Brexit?

[Barry]

In fairy land yes. But in the real world it's those that have the majority in the vote. All Nick has to do is show how Germany manipulates the voting system.

Maybe you can can explain as all Nick has is photos.  While your at it, you can explain how the UK used to control the EU, as pointed out by Nick you were the second highest contributor, you must have had a lot of say. How did the UK get it's way all these decades.

You, Nick and many on here don't get it. There is no supreme leader or band of leaders. The EU is a union of 27 countries and in the council and commission they all have the same say, the same power. If Poland and Hungary in those institutions vote against Germany then they beat Germany in every single proposal. Just because the UK union is made up of one (England) telling the other 3 how things are, doesn't mean that the EU is similarly corrupt.

Yes, Gerry. You are absolutely right, in theory. Thank you for putting me right. Germany have the same influence as Malta, I get it now.

[Borchester]

The EU is a rules based organisation, so what would have happened is the girl in the sparkley dress would have been refused admission and told to go home and put on the required uniform.

You mean like Poland and Hungary?

[patman post]

As I remember it we were left with massive debt after the last war but also regulation which while essential during wartime was mistakenly left in place afterwards. This stifled us. Germany on the other hand had a new start, Adenauer in the meantime, was a great one for de-regulation and in that freedom Germany made great strides while we were held back. Germany flew ahead even though they lost the war and we looked across and wondered. From there it was only a matter of time til we noticed the 'pretty little dress and sparkles' and were in awe. The rest as they say is history.

It's largely true that despite West Germany having all its industries and infrastructure bombed flat or removed as reparations, its post war govt was able to re-equip from scratch with the astute use of Marshall Aid dollars.

Britain received more Marshall Aid than Germany. But instead of investing it in much-needed modernisation, it decided to try and remain a global power and maintain more than two million military personnel in fleets, garrisons and air squadrons sprawled across the world — it didn't seem to realise its overseas military (and its entire latter war effort) had only been possible because of American subsidies under the Lend-Lease programme, which ended it 1945.

It also decided to bring in the expensive welfare state. However, despite restricting investment at home, it still couldn't cope, and had to borrow — around one-and-a-half times as much again ($4bn) as its Marshall Aid ($2.7bn) — from the US. 

And people wonder how Germany and Japan managed to become such post-war industrial powers having been so comprehensively smashed.   

I bet that if Brexit crosses their mind at all, Germans must wonder how the UK could once again make choices that inflict so much economic damage on itself...
   

[T00ts]

Your analogy is flawed in many ways. The EU is a rules based organisation, so what would have happened is the girl in the sparkley dress would have been refused admission and told to go home and put on the required uniform. Or propose a vote so that everyone could wear a sparkley dress and that the poor members of the class would be given money from the wealthy members to help them to buy their dress. And everyone lived happily every after in their sparkley dresses, knowing everyone was being treated as equals.
Meanwhile out in the playground there's four little boys playing football, the biggest boy own's the ball and orders everyone into their positions and keeps changing the rules of the game so he wins all the time. He doesn't like the girls and calls them names all the time.

You obviously have never dealt with a mum of little girls! You are right of course except if the EU was involved the child would be 18 before a decision was made.
Just as an after thought is it EU policy that all members should be the same? Does that mean that any advantages derived by Germany in terms of financial gain should be forfeited to bring them in line? It always seemed to me that other members waited for handouts.

[GerryT]

In my ballet classes of little 3yr old girls although there was a uniform, occasionally one would arrive in her pretty frilly pink tutu covered in bows and sparkles the latest party type dress. As if by magic 20 odd little girls who would normally be totally absorbed in the class would have eyes for nothing and no-one but the one in the sparkles. It was almost impossible to draw their focus away from their awe at this vision in their midst.

Germany for me represents that little tot. They have a load of money, are the most successful in the EU (I wonder why that is) and the other countries flock to gaze in awe hoping no doubt that some of that sparkle will fall upon them. German knows that they are the golden goose of the EU and all the other members are only too aware of it. The result is a natural human response. Yes Germany leads.

Your analogy is flawed in many ways. The EU is a rules based organisation, so what would have happened is the girl in the sparkley dress would have been refused admission and told to go home and put on the required uniform. Or propose a vote so that everyone could wear a sparkley dress and that the poor members of the class would be given money from the wealthy members to help them to buy their dress. And everyone lived happily every after in their sparkley dresses, knowing everyone was being treated as equals.
Meanwhile out in the playground there's four little boys playing football, the biggest boy own's the ball and orders everyone into their positions and keeps changing the rules of the game so he wins all the time. He doesn't like the girls and calls them names all the time.

[Nick]

In fairy land yes. But in the real world it's those that have the majority in the vote. All Nick has to do is show how Germany manipulates the voting system.

Maybe you can can explain as all Nick has is photos.  While your at it, you can explain how the UK used to control the EU, as pointed out by Nick you were the second highest contributor, you must have had a lot of say. How did the UK get it's way all these decades.

You, Nick and many on here don't get it. There is no supreme leader or band of leaders. The EU is a union of 27 countries and in the council and commission they all have the same say, the same power. If Poland and Hungary in those institutions vote against Germany then they beat Germany in every single proposal. Just because the UK union is made up of one (England) telling the other 3 how things are, doesn't mean that the EU is similarly corrupt.

The real world has just been on the phone Gerry, it was wondering where you are!

[GerryT]

Nick has posted a contributions chart showing it is Germany that pays most to the piper, he who pays the piper calls the tune, don't they?

In fairy land yes. But in the real world it's those that have the majority in the vote. All Nick has to do is show how Germany manipulates the voting system.

Maybe you can can explain as all Nick has is photos.  While your at it, you can explain how the UK used to control the EU, as pointed out by Nick you were the second highest contributor, you must have had a lot of say. How did the UK get it's way all these decades.

You, Nick and many on here don't get it. There is no supreme leader or band of leaders. The EU is a union of 27 countries and in the council and commission they all have the same say, the same power. If Poland and Hungary in those institutions vote against Germany then they beat Germany in every single proposal. Just because the UK union is made up of one (England) telling the other 3 how things are, doesn't mean that the EU is similarly corrupt.

[Borchester]

In my ballet classes of little 3yr old girls although there was a uniform, occasionally one would arrive in her pretty frilly pink tutu covered in bows and sparkles the latest party type dress. As if by magic 20 odd little girls who would normally be totally absorbed in the class would have eyes for nothing and no-one but the one in the sparkles. It was almost impossible to draw their focus away from their awe at this vision in their midst.

Germany for me represents that little tot. They have a load of money, are the most successful in the EU (I wonder why that is) and the other countries flock to gaze in awe hoping no doubt that some of that sparkle will fall upon them. German knows that they are the golden goose of the EU and all the other members are only too aware of it. The result is a natural human response. Yes Germany leads.

Good for them.Apart from anything else, if Germany is rolling in dosh, then, as you say, some might rub off on us.

I have no objection to the Germans running Europe, just as long as they don't bother us.

[T00ts]

The legacy of the Marshall plan aid after the 2nd World War. Also Germany has a massive manufacturing base the products of which are mainly exported.

As I remember it we were left with massive debt after the last war but also regulation which while essential during wartime was mistakenly left in place afterwards. This stifled us. Germany on the other hand had a new start, Adenauer in the meantime, was a great one for de-regulation and in that freedom Germany made great strides while we were held back. Germany flew ahead even though they lost the war and we looked across and wondered. From there it was only a matter of time til we noticed the 'pretty little dress and sparkles' and were in awe. The rest as they say is history.

[papasmurf]

Germany for me represents that little tot. They have a load of money, are the most successful in the EU (I wonder why that is)

The legacy of the Marshall plan aid after the 2nd World War. Also Germany has a massive manufacturing base the products of which are mainly exported.

[T00ts]

In my ballet classes of little 3yr old girls although there was a uniform, occasionally one would arrive in her pretty frilly pink tutu covered in bows and sparkles the latest party type dress. As if by magic 20 odd little girls who would normally be totally absorbed in the class would have eyes for nothing and no-one but the one in the sparkles. It was almost impossible to draw their focus away from their awe at this vision in their midst.

Germany for me represents that little tot. They have a load of money, are the most successful in the EU (I wonder why that is) and the other countries flock to gaze in awe hoping no doubt that some of that sparkle will fall upon them. German knows that they are the golden goose of the EU and all the other members are only too aware of it. The result is a natural human response. Yes Germany leads.

[papasmurf]

Nick has posted a contributions chart showing it is Germany that pays most to the piper, he who pays the piper calls the tune, don't they?

The EU is NOT a dictatorship.  (No matter how often some people insist it is.)

[Barry]

Nick has posted a contributions chart showing it is Germany that pays most to the piper, he who pays the piper calls the tune, don't they?

[GerryT]

It's called money Gerry and Germany are set to be paying 40% of the EU's budget. You're very naive if you think that the other 27 don't recognise that. Hence the reason Merkel is stood at the front of most photos. Insignificant as you think it is, it sets the tone.

Are you still going down the photo rabbit hole, your persistent, but you still haven't shown how Germany rules the EU. Being in the EU saves more than the contributions, look at the UK, the cost to the UK was more like 170m a week, not 350m as that red bus said. But the costs associated to brexit have been shown to be 800m a week, and that doesn't include covid or the import duty costs of customs agents etc etc. If you look at it this way Germany is saving the most for being an EU member.
Countries save far more by been members, the UK proved that.

Wheres the proof, other that a very weak photo, how does Germany get all those people to vote in germany's favour, explain how that works.

[Borchester]

That's it Gerry keep dipping your brush in the barrel of whitewash.

I doubt that Gerry would know Barnier from a swimming pool full of whitewash.

That said, our Michel does seem to incredibly brass necked, even for a politician. Does anyone know how this is playing in France? My impression of French politics has been that the voters give the Agincourt Salute to all candidates until they realise that the alternative is Marine Le Pen. But, as said, I have not been really following recent events. So, any feedback?