We have been part of an experiment

[Sheepy]

3rd, a vaccine for one virus may INCREASE your susceptibility to a different strain (as shown in research, known as viral interference)."

See there you go again, trying to introduce figures, we don't want figures unless they are agreeable to the Establishment way of things.

[Barry]

So — in my best pompous style — may I ask, would you stop all children from going to school because some may be killed or injured on their way there or returning home? Or would you support continuing efforts to make travelling to and from school safer...?

Well, I'd keep things as they are. There are very few deaths and injuries of schoolchildren travelling to and from school. The less risk to children, the better.

The arguments given by Whitty were about keeping the schools open and about mental health, which was all rather bizarre.
The schools are open now and there is not a problem

[patman post]

How many deaths or hospitalisations of children from myocarditis (as a bi product of mRNA jab) would you say is acceptable?
I say none.
Over to you.

That's a simplistic: "Have you stopped beating your wife?" type of question.   

But to answer — I do not find the deaths of any children in any circumstances acceptable, and I hope that (and support) all efforts are made to minimise all risks.   

So — in my best pompous style — may I ask, would you stop all children from going to school because some may be killed or injured on their way there or returning home? Or would you support continuing efforts to make travelling to and from school safer...?

[Barry]

They've come up with a new hip word for people who are double jabbed and still die with the virus.
It's called "BREAKTHROUGH" and you'll be hearing lots about it.

The average age of a "breakthrough" death is 84.
Eighty flaming four!

[Scott777]

Is it that the vaccines are rubbish? Do we know who is dying, age, state of vaccination. Do we have a breakdown of hospitalisation v recovery v deaths? We have known almost since day one that the vaccines weren't foolproof, then variants evolved which had further impact. For example I understand that we don't all have the same degree of Covid antibodies even if we have the same jabs. Now that makes sense to me but they don't test anyone. Is that too much to ask? Could they not devise something like a prick test. Perhaps it's not possible but I have had the two jabs but have been told that I will have a third very soon. How do they really know I need it?

The biggest problem that I have seen is that the jabs we have save us from severe infection but don't stop us passing it on. So those with no jabs are more than vulnerable. I can't help but feel that until all are jabbed this will continue. Interestingly I read today that there are no original Covid (Wuhan type) infections now they are all Delta. So the jab did do one job.

Yes, we know who is dying, because nearly everyone in Israel got double jabbed, and they are spiking with Covid deaths.  (see graph).  We (maybe not you, but lots of people accused of being crazy for doing research and ignoring the TV) have known from day one that the jabs will cause illness.  I posted in January:

"In practice, vaccines won't reign anything in, for various reasons.  Firstly, I've seen no evidence they stop transmission.  2nd, viruses apparently mutate a lot, so you would need a new vaccine each time.  3rd, a vaccine for one virus may INCREASE your susceptibility to a different strain (as shown in research, known as viral interference)."

https://pol-tics.com/covid-19/21/reason-to-take-vaccine/2735/300
Reply#7

And yet, you want more jabs?  Well, in that case you will need to get new jabs every time it mutates, and every time you get jabbed you risk illness from all sorts of diseases, such as shingles and much worse.

[Scott777]

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations   
In my opinion as a parent, this has been another avoidable administrative delay. It is already resulting in the increased spread of infection among the wider community after the return to school. The roll out of Covid vaccine to school children should have been offered during the summer break before schools reopened. The debate should have been on even lower age and how to encourage take up...   

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations, the UK's four chief medical officers have decided, saying the likely impact in reducing disruption to schools meant such a plan could be clinically justified.
All children in the age group will be offered a first Pfizer jab as soon as possible, with the programme led by in-school vaccination services. A second injection will be potentially given once more evidence is gathered, so not before the spring term at the earliest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/uk-children-aged-12-to-15-to-be-offered-covid-jab 

Extracts from what's been published today by govt (link below):

Evidence from clinical and public health colleagues, general practice, child health and mental health consistently makes clear the massive impact that absent, or disrupted, face-to-face education has had on the welfare and mental health of many children and young people. This is despite remarkable efforts by parents and teachers to maintain education in the face of disruption. 

Vaccination, if deployed, should only be seen as an adjunct to other actions to maintain children and young people in secondary school and minimise further education disruption and therefore medium and longer term public health harm. 

[Sensible statement to placate the antivaxxers, but it should be noted that round here (north London and the east end) little else has been done by govt bodies in terms of "other actions" (eg, advising and installing increased ventilation, extra cleansing in schools, hand washing, etc)] 

On balance however, UK CMOs judge that it is likely vaccination will help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in schools which are attended by children and young people aged 12 to 15 years. COVID-19 is a disease which can be very effectively transmitted by mass spreading events, especially with Delta variant. Having a significant proportion of pupils vaccinated is likely to reduce the probability of such events which are likely to cause local outbreaks in, or associated with, schools. They will also reduce the chance an individual child gets COVID-19. This means vaccination is likely to reduce (but not eliminate) education disruption. 

Overall however the view of the UK CMOs is that the additional likely benefits of reducing educational disruption, and the consequent reduction in public health harm from educational disruption, on balance provide sufficient extra advantage in addition to the marginal advantage at an individual level identified by the JCVI to recommend in favour of vaccinating this group. They therefore recommend on public health grounds that ministers extend the offer of universal vaccination with a first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine to all children and young people aged 12 to 15 not already covered by existing JCVI advice.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

Giving any experimental treatment to a child is a crime.  A child cannot give proper informed consent, and even if a parent consents, it's still child abuse.  This is a very serious line that should not be crossed, or there will be sh*tloads of angry people.

[T00ts]

Now don't let's get carried away Barry! I wouldn't go as far as that.  I feel as I have always done that we were ill prepared assuming it was just an Eastern thing as has happened before. Even when it was devastating Europe and there were warnings about how we would be affected, still we sat on our hands. There are people in high places who need to give some answers.

When it comes to the vaccines I do believe that the scientists pulled it out of the bag but I was interested to read your summary (I think it was you) including the WHO saying to vaccinate midst pandemic encourages variants. That may be right but hindsight is so easy. At the time I believe WHO was as strongly behind finding a vaccine as anyone  and WHO led the world in their responses.

Perhaps we have been too circumspect in our vaccination programme. I believe it could have gone out quicker but once again either Government or NHS were reluctant to really throw everyone at it. They kept it largely in house. I can't help even now but think that the NHS has been a big part of the problem. Not the front line hands on folk of course, bless them, but there is a canker in the NHS that needs lancing.

I can't forget those awful hospital scenes of people struggling to breathe. I have been there on a lesser scale and it is terrifying. Having said all that I grant that we cannot be sure just how many really did die of Covid and only Covid but I still am more than grateful that I wasn't  one of them, and I thank everyone for that. In a crisis, people can only do what they believe to be the right thing. Did they have the right information? Did they even have the right people in the right places? I have my doubts, but I have no doubt that they thought they were doing the best they could to save lives. Once on that course it would have caused even more problems to change direction. It may be that we will be confronted with even more variants, each year it happens with the flu and they take a guess on which type of vaccine to give out but as I understand it we will already have a basic antibody which will help.

[Barry]

Perhaps it's not possible but I have had the two jabs but have been told that I will have a third very soon.

Israel have done one booster and are now considering a 4th jab as it is still not working. They are technologically and medically brilliant!
I think it was Albert Einstein who said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

I've got a feeling you are starting to listen to us conspiracy theorists who are saying it is all about money and control.
Nothing to do with a virus, T00ts.

[T00ts]

Which is what is happening now.

We are now into the third wave, the fatality rate has been rising for the last three months and the vaccines are clearly rubbish.

Is it that the vaccines are rubbish? Do we know who is dying, age, state of vaccination. Do we have a breakdown of hospitalisation v recovery v deaths? We have known almost since day one that the vaccines weren't foolproof, then variants evolved which had further impact. For example I understand that we don't all have the same degree of Covid antibodies even if we have the same jabs. Now that makes sense to me but they don't test anyone. Is that too much to ask? Could they not devise something like a prick test. Perhaps it's not possible but I have had the two jabs but have been told that I will have a third very soon. How do they really know I need it?

The biggest problem that I have seen is that the jabs we have save us from severe infection but don't stop us passing it on. So those with no jabs are more than vulnerable. I can't help but feel that until all are jabbed this will continue. Interestingly I read today that there are no original Covid (Wuhan type) infections now they are all Delta. So the jab did do one job.

[Barry]

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations   
In my opinion as a parent, this has been another avoidable administrative delay. It is already resulting in the increased spread of infection among the wider community after the return to school. The roll out of Covid vaccine to school children should have been offered during the summer break before schools reopened. The debate should have been on even lower age and how to encourage take up...   

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations, the UK's four chief medical officers have decided, saying the likely impact in reducing disruption to schools meant such a plan could be clinically justified.
All children in the age group will be offered a first Pfizer jab as soon as possible, with the programme led by in-school vaccination services. A second injection will be potentially given once more evidence is gathered, so not before the spring term at the earliest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/uk-children-aged-12-to-15-to-be-offered-covid-jab 

Extracts from what's been published today by govt (link below):

Evidence from clinical and public health colleagues, general practice, child health and mental health consistently makes clear the massive impact that absent, or disrupted, face-to-face education has had on the welfare and mental health of many children and young people. This is despite remarkable efforts by parents and teachers to maintain education in the face of disruption. 

Vaccination, if deployed, should only be seen as an adjunct to other actions to maintain children and young people in secondary school and minimise further education disruption and therefore medium and longer term public health harm. 

[Sensible statement to placate the antivaxxers, but it should be noted that round here (north London and the east end) little else has been done by govt bodies in terms of "other actions" (eg, advising and installing increased ventilation, extra cleansing in schools, hand washing, etc)] 

On balance however, UK CMOs judge that it is likely vaccination will help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in schools which are attended by children and young people aged 12 to 15 years. COVID-19 is a disease which can be very effectively transmitted by mass spreading events, especially with Delta variant. Having a significant proportion of pupils vaccinated is likely to reduce the probability of such events which are likely to cause local outbreaks in, or associated with, schools. They will also reduce the chance an individual child gets COVID-19. This means vaccination is likely to reduce (but not eliminate) education disruption. 

Overall however the view of the UK CMOs is that the additional likely benefits of reducing educational disruption, and the consequent reduction in public health harm from educational disruption, on balance provide sufficient extra advantage in addition to the marginal advantage at an individual level identified by the JCVI to recommend in favour of vaccinating this group. They therefore recommend on public health grounds that ministers extend the offer of universal vaccination with a first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine to all children and young people aged 12 to 15 not already covered by existing JCVI advice.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

How many deaths or hospitalisations of children from myocarditis (as a bi product of mRNA jab) would you say is acceptable?
I say none.
Over to you.

[papasmurf]

In my opinion as a parent, this has been another avoidable administrative delay. It is already resulting in the increased spread of infection among the wider community after the return to school. The roll out of Covid vaccine to school children should have been offered during the summer break before schools reopened. The debate should have been on even lower age and how to encourage take up... 

My wife and I are sticking to this advice:-

[Sheepy]

What, you mean they are so careful, the got double-jabbed so they can help spread new variants?  Or maybe they were so careful, they checked that the jab is experimental, and experimental = extra safe. 

I really know I shouldn't laugh but, aren't these some of the very posters calling others who vote thick?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/peston-lifts-lid-on-covid-horror-as-infections-spike-in-double-vaxxed-40-to-79-year-olds/ar-AAOlVVt?ocid=msedgntp
Well, let's not let figures come into it,

[patman post]

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations   
In my opinion as a parent, this has been another avoidable administrative delay. It is already resulting in the increased spread of infection among the wider community after the return to school. The roll out of Covid vaccine to school children should have been offered during the summer break before schools reopened. The debate should have been on even lower age and how to encourage take up...   

Children aged 12 to 15 can be offered Covid vaccinations, the UK's four chief medical officers have decided, saying the likely impact in reducing disruption to schools meant such a plan could be clinically justified.
All children in the age group will be offered a first Pfizer jab as soon as possible, with the programme led by in-school vaccination services. A second injection will be potentially given once more evidence is gathered, so not before the spring term at the earliest.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/uk-children-aged-12-to-15-to-be-offered-covid-jab 

Extracts from what's been published today by govt (link below):

Evidence from clinical and public health colleagues, general practice, child health and mental health consistently makes clear the massive impact that absent, or disrupted, face-to-face education has had on the welfare and mental health of many children and young people. This is despite remarkable efforts by parents and teachers to maintain education in the face of disruption. 

Vaccination, if deployed, should only be seen as an adjunct to other actions to maintain children and young people in secondary school and minimise further education disruption and therefore medium and longer term public health harm. 

[Sensible statement to placate the antivaxxers, but it should be noted that round here (north London and the east end) little else has been done by govt bodies in terms of "other actions" (eg, advising and installing increased ventilation, extra cleansing in schools, hand washing, etc)] 

On balance however, UK CMOs judge that it is likely vaccination will help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in schools which are attended by children and young people aged 12 to 15 years. COVID-19 is a disease which can be very effectively transmitted by mass spreading events, especially with Delta variant. Having a significant proportion of pupils vaccinated is likely to reduce the probability of such events which are likely to cause local outbreaks in, or associated with, schools. They will also reduce the chance an individual child gets COVID-19. This means vaccination is likely to reduce (but not eliminate) education disruption. 

Overall however the view of the UK CMOs is that the additional likely benefits of reducing educational disruption, and the consequent reduction in public health harm from educational disruption, on balance provide sufficient extra advantage in addition to the marginal advantage at an individual level identified by the JCVI to recommend in favour of vaccinating this group. They therefore recommend on public health grounds that ministers extend the offer of universal vaccination with a first dose of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine to all children and young people aged 12 to 15 not already covered by existing JCVI advice.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19/universal-vaccination-of-children-and-young-people-aged-12-to-15-years-against-covid-19

[papasmurf]

It's time we all got used to the fact that this is here to stay

I already have and plan my life accordingly, as do most if not all the other extremely clinically vulnerable people I know.

[Nick]

What, you mean they are so careful, the got double-jabbed so they can help spread new variants?  Or maybe they were so careful, they checked that the jab is experimental, and experimental = extra safe.

It's time we all got used to the fact that this is here to stay and consider it the same way we consider the flu.
Constantly reporting figures doesn't help either.