We have been part of an experiment

[Scott777]

NY Post telling a half truth is better than nothing.

"The Food and Drug Administration is expected to approve new COVID-19 booster shots this week — before the vaccines are tested on humans"

They continue to promote the deceit that current vaccines are safe.  However, the testing had only just begun when they were approved.  This time, the testing has not even begun.  The denialists will have to explain how that can be justified, given that it's just for Omicron, which is no more deadly than the flu.

https://nypost.com/2022/08/28/latest-covid-booster-shots-will-be-released-before-human-testing-is-complete/

[Sheepy]

More experimentation which is questionable, ethically.
Scientists Resurrect Deadly Spanish Flu Using Gain-of-Function


https://slaynews.com/news/scientists-resurrect-deadly-spanish-flu-using-gain-of-function/

Maybe ready for the next accidental lab leak?

Being held hostage might be fun for them, I respect people who refuse to be held hostage by a system that uses fear and psychology as its basis for holding everyone as a hostage while saying they are offering you freedom and democracy while doing the exact opposite. 

[Scott777]

You're struggling, Pat.  Try to focus on what I say.  Reuters fact-checkers are not a reliable source of facts.  They had to correct themselves, which proves it.  Additionally, they have not claimed the vaccines are not experimental.  Again, you didn't read it correctly. "Claims that COVID-19 vaccines are 'experimental', have skipped animal testing and have not completed initial research trials are false."  This is a statement combining 3 different facts.  If any of the 3 facts are false, then the combined statement is false.  So, if they have not skipped animal testing, then the combined statement is false, even if the other 2 parts are true.  That's how English grammar works.

No, I haven't shifted my argument, that's what you did.  I quote from my earlier post, #348: "If it were not for the guv declaring a public health emergency, the vaccine would not be legal".  Instead YOU shift the point with: How can the Covid pandemic be classed as normal circumstances. I never said or suggested that.  I said, "if".  Do you not understand the word "if"?  You still haven't said why it would be illegal.  I explained it's because it is not safe.  You still ignore it.

You didn't open a "parent document".  My link is not an "incomplete bit of a chart".  There is one document, with 3 tabs: "Study Detail", "Tabular View", and "Study Results".  You opened the Study Results.  The results do not need to specify "experimental", because the Study Detail does.  Why would results need to specify the experimental classification of the study?  Why would the word "experimental" need to be used referring to ongoing work, if the entire study classification is stated in the correct tab?

I see Pat has run away from this discussion.  I know it's a challenge to overcome denial, but it's cowardly to just ignore the questions.

[Barry]

More experimentation which is questionable, ethically.
Scientists Resurrect Deadly Spanish Flu Using Gain-of-Function


https://slaynews.com/news/scientists-resurrect-deadly-spanish-flu-using-gain-of-function/

Maybe ready for the next accidental lab leak?

[Scott777]

Yes it is.
the folk on the telly want to fill some air time and you enjoy a good conspiracy.

No, it's not just this bloke who is reporting extra deaths, and rising Covid.  And it's you with the conspiracy theory, if they are all making it up.  I don't mind if you have a theory about the media fabricating data, but you should own it.

[Barry]

I'm certain the monkeys are not amused.

  oo oo oo

[Borchester]

It's not just some bloke.

Yes it is.

Dr Levinson wants to puff his business, the folk on the telly want to fill some air time and you enjoy a good conspiracy.

The trouble with all this fuss over the Chinese Pox and folk buggering monkeys is that there is not a grain of humour in the whole boring business.

[Scott777]

Actually, it is not medics, but Dr Charles Levinson, the chief executive of Doctorcall, a private GP service,who  said that his company was seeing "far too many" cases of undetected cancers and cardiac problems, as well as "disturbing" numbers of mental health conditions.
"Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?" he said. "Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force, in my view.
"Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation's attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately."

He might be right, but it is still one bloke and not exactly a searching inquiry.

It's not just some bloke.  Covid 'cases' are soaring in New Zealand, and Australia also has Non-COVID deaths significantly up.  Of course, rising Covid could not possibly be due to vaccines causing lower immunity, even though the EMA said over-vaccination does do that.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-08/non-covid-deaths-are-up-a-significant-amount-this-year/101309930

[Borchester]

Those darn experts again, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFf5k2h-f_4

I am the most trusting of men, but whenever I see the word "expert", I think oh F@@@, another talking head dragged up to fill ten minutes of air time.

[Barry]

Those darn experts again, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFf5k2h-f_4

[Borchester]

Here's the Telegraph own article.

"Unexplained excess deaths outstrip those from virus as medics call figures 'terrifying'"

Obviously, it's not the vaccines, oh, no no no no.  It's unexplained, BUT NEVER experimental vaccines, cos, everyone repeat after me, "safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/18/lockdown-effects-feared-killing-people-covid/

Actually, it is not medics, but Dr Charles Levinson, the chief executive of Doctorcall, a private GP service,who  said that his company was seeing "far too many" cases of undetected cancers and cardiac problems, as well as "disturbing" numbers of mental health conditions.
"Hundreds and hundreds of people dying every week – what is going on?" he said. "Delays in seeking and receiving healthcare are no doubt the driving force, in my view.
"Daily Covid statistics demanded the nation's attention, yet these terrifying figures barely get a look in. A full and urgent government investigation is required immediately."

He might be right, but it is still one bloke and not exactly a searching inquiry.

[Barry]

So what are the 'not from Covid deaths?' Suicides, malnutrition, mental health problems due to lockdown?

That's currently under investigation, Nick.
Many are cardio-vascular problems, but there is just a general increase in the death rate in certain age groups.
The 10-14 years olds are quite worrying.

[Nick]

Jamie Jenkins
@statsjamie
'Deaths in 10-14 year olds are 11.7% above average, 30-34 are 11% above average, 35-39 are 12.5% with double digit above average in 55-64 year olds'

Sarah Knapton - science editor in the Telegraph
Over the past two months, the number of excess deaths not from Covid dwarfs the number linked to the virus.

Oh dear, what have we done. There are always unintended consequences - in this case in the name of "saving lives". Ironic.

So what are the 'not from Covid deaths?' Suicides, malnutrition, mental health problems due to lockdown? 

[Barry]

An interesting read. Probably inconclusive.

https://www.euroscientist.com/uk-recorded-more-than-10000-extra-non-covid-deaths-since-july-how-do-we-know-vaccines-are-not-to-blame/

[Barry]

Jamie Jenkins
@statsjamie
'Deaths in 10-14 year olds are 11.7% above average, 30-34 are 11% above average, 35-39 are 12.5% with double digit above average in 55-64 year olds'

Sarah Knapton - science editor in the Telegraph
Over the past two months, the number of excess deaths not from Covid dwarfs the number linked to the virus.

Oh dear, what have we done. There are always unintended consequences - in this case in the name of "saving lives". Ironic.