We have been part of an experiment

[cromwell]

You and others who support the covid restrictions have been cheering china on for two years regarding lockdowns and other measures , now you are trying and failing to use them as a barometer of democracy to show how great the west is?

Typical of you cromwell , silent on the ever growing restrictions on so called "western" ( that word again replacing brittannia) freedoms , while screaming about russia china and anywhere else the media tell you are bad.

Think about what you have said. Whats worse? China acting as its apparently supposed to , or the free west going off piste?

From what i have seen over the last two years , covid hysterics have almost practically been begging for some stalinesque totalitarian figure to rip up all freedoms to save them from the sniffles.

....but china bad.

Bloody hell you should get a writers job on jackanory,you really do make things up as you go along.

First off Ive largely kept my own counsel regarding covid,secondly it was a barometer of all the west bad but some people on here bigging up China and Russia (not Sampan before you go off on on one he's been consistent over the years) my silence as you call it has been based on you should do what's best for yourself and I'll do what's best for me and mine.

I don't need media to tell me what's good or bad,whatever the faults of the west the people on the crap end of it now are ordinary Ukrainians just like Afghans, Syrians and others who are suffering down to different countries actions.

[Thomas]

Then you'd be wrong wouldn't you,I ain't cheering the Chinese on and yawn show me all my posts that I continually tell sampan China is bad and should be kept at arms length.

My point was the people on here complaining about Trudeau,Ardern and the Austrians and celebrating the freedom convoys and then China locks down 26 million not a word and like I said freedom convoy,try that in China and seewhere it gets you.

You and others who support the covid restrictions have been cheering china on for two years regarding lockdowns and other measures , now you are trying and failing to use them as a barometer of democracy to show how great the west is?

Typical of you cromwell , silent on the ever growing restrictions on so called "western" ( that word again replacing brittannia) freedoms , while screaming about russia china and anywhere else the media tell you are bad.

Think about what you have said. Whats worse? China acting as its apparently supposed to , or the free west going off piste?

From what i have seen over the last two years , covid hysterics have almost practically been begging for some stalinesque totalitarian figure to rip up all freedoms to save them from the sniffles.

....but china bad.

[cromwell]

Why do we need to complain about China's lack of freedom?  It isn't a surprise. 

Ah so you do think it's a totalitarian dictatorship,well don't tell Thomas you think that.

[Scott777]

My point was the people on here complaining about Trudeau,Ardern and the Austrians and celebrating the freedom convoys and then China locks down 26 million not a word and like I said freedom convoy,try that in China and seewhere it gets you.

Why do we need to complain about China's lack of freedom?  It isn't a surprise.  The western countries are supposed to be free, and so when we learn we are not, it's a shock and should be highlighted.

[cromwell]

Im not sure what your point is cromwell , but are you saying people are being quiet about china having a lockdown as its an uncomfortable truth that the west must follow?

The fact china is having yet another lockdown surely backs up what many on here have been saying for two years now.......that lockdowns dont work in terms of stopping this virus , they merely kick the covid can down the road and it reapppears at the end of the lockdown to begin again.

The dawning realisation among many western governments is the fact we should never have followed chinas example in the first place. With hindsight it was understandable in the first instance , but the following lockdowns were unforgivable.

Let me turn what you said above back at you....you regualrly on here tell sampan that china is bad , and hint its a totalitarian dictatorship that the west must keep at arms length. Now you appear to be cheering the chinese on when it suits , because you agree with their covid measures and want us to follow china?

My stance in the chinese are wrong , and theri leadership has it wrong , just like ardern trudeau sturgeon and all the other lefty luvvies who went over the top.

Then you'd be wrong wouldn't you,I ain't cheering the Chinese on and yawn show me all my posts that I continually tell sampan China is bad and should be kept at arms length.

My point was the people on here complaining about Trudeau,Ardern and the Austrians and celebrating the freedom convoys and then China locks down 26 million not a word and like I said freedom convoy,try that in China and seewhere it gets you.

[Thomas]

Anyway back to things like freedom convoys,see any inChina?....thought not.

I wouldnt say things like that cromwell , before you end up wae egg on your face again . Werent you implying the russians forbade protest until we saw people protesting outside the kremlin?

Didnt you imply the brave woman protesting on russian tv was for the high jump , and lo and behold she got a fine?

Meanwhile , We have the heroes of the free west trudeau ardern sturgeon etc bringing in laws to stop protest outside parliament , or using other methods to shut down legitimate protest , while of course others were force vaccinating their population against the chinese sniffles and threatening imprisonment and fines for not doing so.

Like i said , the big illusion of freedom and democracy in the west is coming under close scrutiny and found to be a sham .

[Thomas]

It may well be that covid-19 is destined to work its way through the world population and people until people gain natural immunity.

Thats my belief.

But it's still a good idea to reduce suffering and death along the way.

...and how have they done that? One minute you are screaming countries havent done enough to stop covid ( has it dawned on you governments cant stop it?) and millions have died worldwide , the next you hint its good we reduce death along the way?

The covid dominoes have fallen one by one over the last two years till we are now back where we started.

First of all lockdown was going to stop it , then it didnt.

Then vaccines were going to stop you catching it. Then it didnt. Then vaccines were going to stop transmissions , then it didnt. Then vaccines (most countires have had three , some four)were going to stop death , then it didint.

Seems to me we have went through two years of hell for nothing , the virus is still surging and killin the elderly and frail , and people like you want us to keep doing the same things over and over while expecting a different result?

Lockdowns and other precautions, plus vaccinations have saved a huge number of lives to date.

Have they ? Evidence please?

The average age of death from covid in your country is 82 , across western europe including scotland its around 79 - 84. People who are triple vaccinated , as well as having participated in numerous lockdowns , are still dying by the thousands.

In the early stages of the pandemic, lockdowns were introduced to reduce the spread of the disease and in particular to stop health services being overwhelmed with seriously ill cases. With the current situation, where most people are largely (but not completely) protected from serious illness with covid, maybe lockdowns would only be needed to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

i think we understand that the various health services didnt want overwhelmed . They are complaining they are overwhelmed every single winter .

While covid is still widespread, there's a higher risk of the virus mutating into something more deadly again.

ok so whats your answer? Continual lockdown?

Society cannot function if it remains unbalanced to the whims of a small minority . Governments need to balance society in the interests of the majority , and the majority arent clearly in danger from covid despite the mass hysteria of the last two years.

I think it disgraceful certain individuals are demanding continual lockdowns , racking up huge swathes of debt , for thei own selfish ends while throwing the burden onto the shoulders of the young and middle age.

Never once in human history has society damned everyone to protect the elderly and frail. No one wants anyone to die , but a balance and compromise must be reached , and the last two years havent been balanced and compromised.

Time to roll up our sleeves and get on with it , and its finally seems western governments have come to the same conclusion.

[Thomas]

No aI don't think that,just interested at all the freedom convoys etc and what tossers the leaders of those countries are,when China has a lockdown (and it's exactly that)  not a word on here. 

Im not sure what your point is cromwell , but are you saying people are being quiet about china having a lockdown as its an uncomfortable truth that the west must follow?

The fact china is having yet another lockdown surely backs up what many on here have been saying for two years now.......that lockdowns dont work in terms of stopping this virus , they merely kick the covid can down the road and it reapppears at the end of the lockdown to begin again.

The dawning realisation among many western governments is the fact we should never have followed chinas example in the first place. With hindsight it was understandable in the first instance , but the following lockdowns were unforgivable.

Let me turn what you said above back at you....you regualrly on here tell sampan that china is bad , and hint its a totalitarian dictatorship that the west must keep at arms length. Now you appear to be cheering the chinese on when it suits , because you agree with their covid measures and want us to follow china?

My stance in the chinese are wrong , and theri leadership has it wrong , just like ardern trudeau sturgeon and all the other lefty luvvies who went over the top.

[Scott777]

Lockdowns and other precautions, plus vaccinations have saved a huge number of lives to date.

Sure they have.  And I just had dinner, and I didn't die, so thank god my dinner saved me from getting hit by a meteorite.

maybe lockdowns would only be needed to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

Sure they will, just like how having haircuts stops the health service being overwhelmed every year.

While covid is still widespread, there's a higher risk of the virus mutating into something more deadly again.

Why would that be?  Coronaviruses mutate all the time.  Why is there no risk of common colds mutating into the next deadly lurgy?

[Scott777]

its going to work its way through the entire world popualtion until we gain natural immunity.

We probably had it ages ago.  Evidence suggests common colds provide immunity to Covid.

[Scott777]

This Russian invasion of the Ukraine is horrific, but at least it is pushing the Peking Pox off the front page

And helping them make all the crimes disappear.

[Borchester]

It may well be that covid-19 is destined to work its way through the world population and people until people gain natural immunity. But it's still a good idea to reduce suffering and death along the way. Right now Britain and may other countries are experiencing a new spike in cases - probably the latest B2 variant of omicron that's even more infectious but seemingly less deadly. Lockdowns and other precautions, plus vaccinations have saved a huge number of lives to date.

In the early stages of the pandemic, lockdowns were introduced to reduce the spread of the disease and in particular to stop health services being overwhelmed with seriously ill cases. With the current situation, where most people are largely (but not completely) protected from serious illness with covid, maybe lockdowns would only be needed to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

While covid is still widespread, there's a higher risk of the virus mutating into something more deadly again.

Quite.

Despite all the jabs and lockdowns, the UK's fatality rate rose for ten months until February when Vlad decided to invade the Ukraine and give us something else to worry on.

So, a lot of folk who were going to die of something have died of the flu. Life is a bitch and then you die. But that is no reason to act like frightened children.

[HDQQ]

What your opinion cromwell?

Do you think the cycle of never ending lockdowns is the answer?

Lockdowns dont stop the virus , it merely dampens things for s period of time. As we have seen in the west , in the past and currently , as soon as you open up , the virus starts surging again.

Eventually one way or the other , wether its china or elsewhere , its going to work its way through the entire world popualtion until we gain natural immunity.

It may well be that covid-19 is destined to work its way through the world population and people until people gain natural immunity. But it's still a good idea to reduce suffering and death along the way. Right now Britain and may other countries are experiencing a new spike in cases - probably the latest B2 variant of omicron that's even more infectious but seemingly less deadly. Lockdowns and other precautions, plus vaccinations have saved a huge number of lives to date.

In the early stages of the pandemic, lockdowns were introduced to reduce the spread of the disease and in particular to stop health services being overwhelmed with seriously ill cases. With the current situation, where most people are largely (but not completely) protected from serious illness with covid, maybe lockdowns would only be needed to stop the health service being overwhelmed.

While covid is still widespread, there's a higher risk of the virus mutating into something more deadly again.

[cromwell]

Anyway back to things like freedom convoys,see any inChina?....thought not.

[Sheepy]

The Scottish fire and rescue service.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20027965.gruinard-island-wildfire-benefit-anthrax-island/

Well, that will be right and the end of that then.