Afghanistan - greatest foreign policy disaster of a generation?

[cromwell]

I expect large numbers of refugees from Afghanistan are already on their way towards Britain.

And your solution to this is?

[papasmurf]

I expect large numbers of refugees from Afghanistan are already on their way towards Britain.

[Sheepy]

OK sheeps but what do we replace it with for the better and protect our way of life.

Ooh well let me see Cromwell, direct democracy while there is anything left to protect.

[cromwell]

Eh? It isn't me who has received a rude awakening. I already live-in a country where the rot that was planted decades ago is coming home to roost.

OK sheeps but what do we replace it with for the better and protect our way of life.

And thinking about maybe best answered with a new thread.

[cromwell]

I dont think anyone is expecting anything from beijing or moscow cromwell , except of course the main stream media and their political controllers in london and washington who are constantly bumming them up as the bogeymen of the world.

China and russia arent my enemies.

Well they ain't your friends either

As i recall , wasnt it washington that was sticking its beak into scottish affairs over things like al megrahi being released , and the scot indy ref , then proceeded to do the same with english affairs over brexit and then latterly joe biden telling london whats what over northern ireland?

On top of that , everytime you see a boatload of refugees walk up dover beach , you can thank the worlds policemen in london and washington for destabilising regions to the extent they cause the death of thousands and displacement of millions all to impose "democracy" on to the so called backward nations who need civilising and brought into line.

You recall correctly,but Americas retreat leaves a vacuum quickly filled,all I'm pointing out is that any expectation that it will be filled for the better would be a mistake IMO.
For all I don't dispute what you posted I see trouble on the horizon,the west does stand for certain values often not honoured by it's own political leaders nevertheless whilst you say China and Russia aren't your enemy would you choose to live under their system?

I dont always agree with  what sampan says for example on this site , but at least he is original , and offers an alternative view

I don't have a problem with Samps he posts some interesting stuff and we agree occasionally,the bits I just don't buy is the never ending propaganda stuff,he's free to post it and I and anyone else is free to call him out as and when.

Afghanistan is an embarressment to the west. As was said on the old forum many years ago , and im sure you said it among others , the lesson from history is they never learn from history , and repeat the mistakes of the past. So it is proved yet again.
Deppity dawg is right to an extent , the afghans would easily be defeated conventionally , but the west as has been proved couldnt hold afghanistan long term. If people dont want you in their country , then you will never stay there.

Yeah have already posted on here that they haven't leant from the empires humiliation (twice) or the lesson handed out to Russia just looking to the future and who will be replacing washington......and it ain't rosey.

[Sheepy]

Well I speak as I see,and mistakes were made sure but if you expect peace harmony and light from Beiijing replacing Washington you're in for a rude awakening and there's still much mischief left in Vlad the bad though now a very junior partner in crime.

Eh? It isn't me who has received a rude awakening. I already live-in a country where the rot that was planted decades ago is coming home to roost.

[Thomas]

Well I speak as I see,and mistakes were made sure but if you expect peace harmony and light from Beiijing replacing Washington you're in for a rude awakening and there's still much mischief left in Vlad the bad though now a very junior partner in crime.

I dont think anyone is expecting anything from beijing or moscow cromwell , except of course the main stream media and their political controllers in london and washington who are constantly bumming them up as the bogeymen of the world.

China and russia arent my enemies.

As i recall , wasnt it washington that was sticking its beak into scottish affairs over things like al megrahi being released , and the scot indy ref , then proceeded to do the same with english affairs over brexit and then latterly joe biden telling london whats what over northern ireland?

On top of that , everytime you see a boatload of refugees walk up dover beach , you can thank the worlds policemen in london and washington for destabilising regions to the extent they cause the death of thousands and displacement of millions all to impose "democracy" on to the so called backward nations who need civilising and brought into line.

I dont always agree with  what sampan says for example on this site , but at least he is original , and offers an alternative view unlike  the hackney roaster who comes across on pretty much every subject as lord haw haw for the sitting government of the day and their propaganda.

Afghanistan is an embarressment to the west. As was said on the old forum many years ago , and im sure you said it among others , the lesson from history is they never learn from history , and repeat the mistakes of the past. So it is proved yet again.

Deppity dawg is right to an extent , the afghans would easily be defeated conventionally , but the west as has been proved couldnt hold afghanistan long term. If people dont want you in their country , then you will never stay there.

[Thomas]

Only if he drags Blair along with him for an explanation . The former PM who has been commenting on everything and anything in recent months has gone strangely quiet .

Funny that mate isnt it? Could it possibly be because everything he has touched over his political career has turned to feckin ashes , both at home on the domestic front and abroad , and he has left a legacy behind where he is reagarded as one of the most hated politicians in political history?

[johnofgwent]

One of the shittiest negative campaigning groups on the planet are a bunch of jerks who go by the ARSEbook group name "occupy democrats"


Basically, if you hate Trump, you are their number 1 fan.


They've been AWFUL quiet lately. Which is wierd, they normally exceed the posting rate of anyone else on the planet.


Then I read THIS...


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58224399


And in particular



"In his memoir Richard Holbrooke, who was special envoy to Afghanistan in the early Obama years, remembered Mr Biden angrily telling him he was "not sending my boy back there to risk his life on behalf of [Afghan] women's rights... That's not what they're there for".

[Thomas]

Oh blimey Thomas I thought I'd made it plain enough I wasn't being totally serious about nuking them just illustrating that conventional war wont defeat them and the only other possible solution (nuking) isn't an option.

No worries cromwell.

[cromwell]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/parliament-to-be-recalled-next-week-over-afghanistan-crisis-as-pm-calls-another-emergency-cobra-meeting/ar-AANkXLV?ocid=msedgntp
Speak for yourself, they humiliated themselves they had it coming. For about 40 years, these things take time.

Well I speak as I see,and mistakes were made sure but if you expect peace harmony and light from Beiijing replacing Washington you're in for a rude awakening and there's still much mischief left in Vlad the bad though now a very junior partner in crime.

[Streetwalker]

Can anyone see any point at all in Bojo-The-Clown recalling Parliament next Wednesday?

Only if he drags Blair along with him for an explanation . The former PM who has been commenting on everything and anything in recent months has gone strangely quiet .

[Sheepy]

Yeah as said "some may celebrate the humbling of the west"

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/parliament-to-be-recalled-next-week-over-afghanistan-crisis-as-pm-calls-another-emergency-cobra-meeting/ar-AANkXLV?ocid=msedgntp
Speak for yourself, they humiliated themselves they had it coming. For about 40 years, these things take time.

[Sheepy]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1426871856645160961

[cromwell]

The point here is that Fighting Terrorism or emancipating women were never the objectives in Afghanistan. They were Geopolitical, end of.

Nobody here is claiming they were....end of.

Twenty years ago, the US was at the height of its Unipolar moment. It was able to buy or bully access through other countries into Afghanistan to find ways to disrupt its emerging Geopolitical rivals in the Region.
Today all has totally changed and the rivals are now far stronger and far more united and actively unifying the Eurasian landmass. The routes the US had are closing down and the US does not have the clout to open them by force. Iran, China and Russia are now intractable enemies. Pakistan is a Chinese Ally and a member of Eurasian institutions. Turkmenistan (the other route via Turkey, and Georgia is now joining Russia's CSTO and that door is closing.
The US is getting out while it can and once gone it can never back in, all talk to the contrary is either Delusional, Hubris or plain cynical bollards.

Yeah as said "some may celebrate the humbling of the west"

It's clear you wont and never will regret but others may find the hegemony of Beijing not that wonderful you describe.......and not just the west but those much closer to man made islands forged to create a false territorial boundary.