Afghanistan - greatest foreign policy disaster of a generation?

[Sampanviking]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58250607


The above us worth a read.


The BBC admit the chap who us NOW saying they wish to move in, they have learned, they have no wish to make enemies ....


.... is the very same man who was in the end of a phone line spouting hardcore islamist "death to America, death to unbelievers, death to those who insult us" crap for the past couple of years.


In the words of said woman journalist, on the page I quote, it is hard to believe a man who has said such things for so long truly believes what he is saying now

Gosh! Sounds like a politician to me! Who would have thought it!

[johnofgwent]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58250607


The above us worth a read.


The BBC admit the chap who us NOW saying they wish to move in, they have learned, they have no wish to make enemies ....


.... is the very same man who was in the end of a phone line spouting hardcore islamist "death to America, death to unbelievers, death to those who insult us" crap for the past couple of years.


In the words of said woman journalist, on the page I quote, it is hard to believe a man who has said such things for so long truly believes what he is saying now

[johnofgwent]

Geopolitics has changed the Taliban say they understand that, we will see.

Well, as I said earlier or maybe in another thread....


At the same time a spokesman for the Taliban was telling this to a journalist, another was shooting a woman in the head in the street for not wearing the full burkha, and a third was telling at a woman journalist at to stand at the sude if the road with the other women while the men walked by.


So yeah, we will see. If people are not shot for owning the cellphones to let us see...

[papasmurf]

might be the conditions which actually give all Afghan women a chance to move towards a more modern lifestyle.

Not with the Taliban in power.

[Sheepy]

Anyway, on the Brightside.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/i-think-they-ve-changed-taliban-cooperating-with-uk-evacuation-effort-says-chief-of-defence-staff/ar-AANrJ06?ocid=msedgntp

[Sheepy]

Afghanistan is properly called "The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" and Sharia has formed the basis of its legal system throughout all the time that the NATO occupying forces were running the country.
While some of the Elite women in the bigger cities were able to live more Western lives, the vast majority, those living in the more remote provinces and countryside, had lives barely touched by such notions. Plus of course the effects and dangers of near endless war will have done nothing for their safety, security or prospects.

Conversely, maybe a chance for a now prolonged period of peace, stability and economic development,might be the conditions which actually give all Afghan women a chance to move towards a more modern lifestyle. 

Geopolitics has changed the Taliban say they understand that, we will see.

[Barry]

Good points, SPV. I would think any children born since 2002 will be very glad to see some stability return to the country and an end to war.
However, everything comes at a price.

[Sampanviking]

The taliban are talking with forked tongues. I have heard them once again promising that Afghans and women in particular will be allowed to live freely and that they will be allowed everything - within the boundaries of Islam.

Their interpretation of Islam won't allow anything and in particular denigrates women. Are diplomats/politicians believing this rubbish?

Afghanistan is properly called "The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" and Sharia has formed the basis of its legal system throughout all the time that the NATO occupying forces were running the country.
While some of the Elite women in the bigger cities were able to live more Western lives, the vast majority, those living in the more remote provinces and countryside, had lives barely touched by such notions. Plus of course the effects and dangers of near endless war will have done nothing for their safety, security or prospects.

Conversely, maybe a chance for a now prolonged period of peace, stability and economic development,might be the conditions which actually give all Afghan women a chance to move towards a more modern lifestyle. 

[Sheepy]

The taliban are talking with forked tongues. I have heard them once again promising that Afghans and women in particular will be allowed to live freely and that they will be allowed everything - within the boundaries of Islam.

Their interpretation of Islam won't allow anything and in particular denigrates women. Are diplomats/politicians believing this rubbish?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/china-and-russia-are-backing-taliban-says-spokesman-in-bombshell-interview/ar-AANq75I?ocid=msedgntp
Apparently according to the neo liberals this is a bombshell, I guess upsetting all the wrong people isn't something the Taliban consider a bright idea, keeping their word however probably is one.

[T00ts]

The taliban are talking with forked tongues. I have heard them once again promising that Afghans and women in particular will be allowed to live freely and that they will be allowed everything - within the boundaries of Islam.

Their interpretation of Islam won't allow anything and in particular denigrates women. Are diplomats/politicians believing this rubbish?

[patman post]

Pity they didn't think of that before, the English Channel wouldn't be filled with goat herders demanding their rights.

Or being attracted by the idea of a Nanny State...

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/live-updates-taliban-announces-general-amnesty-urging-afghans-to-return-to-routine-life/vi-AANpcmu?ocid=msedgntp
Pity they didn't think of that before, the English Channel wouldn't be filled with goat herders demanding their rights.

[Sheepy]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/uk-surprised-by-scale-and-pace-of-taliban-takeover-raab-admits-as-200-more-troops-being-sent-to-kabul-to-help-with-evacuation/ar-AANnNoI?ocid=msedgntp
Politicians feck up constantly treat you like shit and you still have to bail them out, great ain't it?
Cabinet splits have emerged over Afghanistan, with the defence secretary, Ben Wallace, accusing the Foreign Office of evacuating diplomats while leaving soldiers and Ministry of Defence staff to handle the fallout of the Taliban takeover.

The frustrated minister told colleagues he believed there would be "a reckoning" for the Foreign Office after the crisis, sources told the Guardian.

He complained that diplomats had been "on the first plane out", with MoD officials having to replace them and bear the brunt of processing resettlement claims for people trying to flee the Afghan capital.

MoD officials, some soldiers and other civil servants were on Monday helping frantic efforts to process claims from up to 4,000 Afghans thought to be eligible for resettlement in the UK amid chaotic scenes at Kabul's international airport.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/britain-s-ambassador-to-afghanistan-plans-to-stay-in-kabul-for-as-long-as-possible/ar-AANnOxh?ocid=msedgntp

[cromwell]

I will pick my own "friends" cromwell , thank you very much , and i wont have you , the british brainwashing corporation or anyone else tell me who they are.

I didnt say china or russia were my "friends" , i said they arent my enemies. This doesnt make the opposite position the default.

Why is it when i say something on this forum or its predesscessor thats contrary the narrative of the msm , all of a sudden its somehow those nasty scots insurgents making friends with the wrong types and trying to undermine the empire?

FGS remember jim franklin on the old forum accussed me of hoping america  ,( the scottish insurgents last international friend) would try and win scotlands independence for us simply because i agreed with what flash the yank republican said about various stuff???

America isnt "your friend" either . Since the suez crises in the late fifties  , when america humiliated the uk on the world stage , took you aside and told you whats what , it hasnt stopped the propaganda machine churning out the guff about the "special relationship" ,( which generally consists of america saying jump and various uk leaders saying how high sir) and people believeing it.
Eh? They created a desert and called it peace?

From the various stuff that im reading , its not a vacumn being filled , its a people taking back control of their own land from foreign usurpers. Depending on the perspective of course...

...and who suggested it is being filled for the better or worse?

The point is cromwell , its not down to you , the msm or the worlds self appointed policemen to tell another nation how to live thier lives according to "your " rules.

Quite clearly , from the speed at which afghanistan is "falling" , the people are welcoming them back and returning to their own way of life.Who are you or yours to "judge " others?

Trouble on the horison? feck Sake cromwell where have you been these last twenty years?

The trouble isnt on the horizon ....its here! As ever , america withdraws from yet another country torn asunder for their amusements and small political games , and many others have to pick up the pieces.

och rubbish cromwell. Every country on earth past or present believed itself to have superior moral values. This sort of writing shows you swallow the propaganda of washington/london good guys , everyone else they name and shame as bad  guys without thinking.

Wether you" think" your countires morals and standards , or that of your countries masters in washington , are superior doesnt give you the right to impose them on others.

While the msm , who never ever tell porkie pies , are telling cromwell in manchester the fairy tale about good guy bad guy conflict and how the nasty mr putin annexed crimea , the russian msm are telling your equivalent in moscow the same fairy taled about the good guys bad guy story of how the nasty evil british annexed the 6 counties of norhtern ireland.

Over in beijing , they are telling their citizens the story of how the nasty evil americans , with their british puppets , depopulated the chagos islands of the natives and refused to abide by a united nations mandate to vacate the chagos islands and hand them back to the native poeple , and how the majority of nations in the world voted against the uk and us.

All a matter of perspective .

False dichotomy . Having been born into he greatest nation on earth , scotland , of course i wouldnt.

On a serious note , i bet many many people in china and russia and their so called evil system of rule had happeir lives and a better chance in life than what i did growing up ion glasgow in the late seventies early eighties under the wonder of the british sytem.

I havent been to russia or china , but i would like to , and i quite like the look of living somewhere like sochi.

They still arent my enemies. I havent come across much that originates in moscow or beijing that makes my life difficult , but i can think of plenty that comes out of your capital city and washington that complicates the lives of all of us.

We all post things that could be classed as propaganda , so do you.

I couldnt give a f**k about washington . All my life , i have only ever seen three uk politicians stand up to them and not fall over themselves arse licking the american elite , two i disliked intensely , thatcher and galloway , but respected them , the other was salmond.

Occassionally its refreshing seeing a uk politician who doesnt have theri tongue so far up the POTUS arse its sticking out his throat , yet sadly its also something extremely rare.

If you choose to believe that I swallow american or westminster bollocks good for you,of values I was referring to those of ordinary people and I ain't interested in telling people in another country how to live their lives so stop making things up I didn't say or believe.

You should know from my criticism of Bliar and others my thoughts on imposing a way of life on another country,

Sadly you're not old enough apparently to remember a Brit pm telling the yanks to sod off,Wilson did over vietnam and as I mentioned on another thread one of the few post war leaders of any merit whatsoever.

As far as the speed of the takeover proves the population welcoming them back I suppose you think the film of terrified Afghans hanging on to planes as they take off is faked,or those falling off as the planes climb are just celebrating their newly won freedom.

[Sheepy]

To be fair to Biden (and I can't see why anyone should be. At his age he should be playing with his grandchildren rather than sleeping his life away in the White House), it has always been American policy to get the troops out of Afghanistan. The problem is that there is no elegant way to do it.

At least it wasn't one survivor out of 16,000, like poor old Dr. William Brydon

https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/Md3j_jryWMx_98EuUJRPUcQy4g0=/2180x1226/smart/filters:no_upscale()/Remnants_of_an_army2-5c380bdd46e0fb000100a8b9.jpg

Dunno.

Sooner or later all the great powers end up in Afghanistan. The problem is to get them out. Poor old Dr Brydon springs to mind.

Biden is a senile old fool who should be playing with his grandchildren rather than himself, but I can't really see how anyone else could have done better.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/when-i-served-in-the-us-army-our-drill-sergeants-all-knew-the-truth-about-afghanistan-politicians-ignored-them/ar-AANnGJ6?ocid=msedgntp