Afghan refugees. Sorry but Britain is full up.

[Sheepy]

It doesn't take a genius to work out we couldn't stop the collapse.

It doesn't take a genius either to work out the Westminster party in the background will be sowing the seeds of civil war, because they always do. Whereas on the whole here we don't give them that option.

[T00ts]

Well T00ts all I see is quite a few on here spouting I'm allright Jack,for the benefit it's not dewy eyed but a sense of not betraying those who worked for our service personell at great risk to themselves.

Are you having a dig?  That wasn't actually the question I was addressing. I was more focussed on the women and girls, but yes I do agree. To leave anyone in peril because we employed them directly is not fair and space should be made fore them and their families although I doubt that anyone of extended family will be safe either if tales of retribution by the Taliban are relevant. The whole debacle has left us and the Afghans in a potentially tragic situation. Perhaps instead of watching our coastlines falling into the sea we should be reclaiming land. I was watching Monaco recently doing just that.

[cromwell]

Boris now thinks he is a Sheepy, he doesn't have it in him.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/johnson-says-idea-uk-could-have-prevented-afghan-collapse-an-illusion/ar-AANrX4l?ocid=msedgntp
I said they would be judged by their actions not their words not you. You slippery old git.

It doesn't take a genius to work out we couldn't stop the collapse.

[Sheepy]

Well T00ts all I see is quite a few on here spouting I'm allright Jack,for the benefit it's not dewy eyed but a sense of not betraying those who worked for our service personell at great risk to themselves.

Boris now thinks he is a Sheepy, he doesn't have it in him.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/johnson-says-idea-uk-could-have-prevented-afghan-collapse-an-illusion/ar-AANrX4l?ocid=msedgntp
I said they would be judged by their actions not their words not you. You slippery old git.

[papasmurf]

Well no doubt the inevitable crippling sanctions the West will impose against the country that will surely follow, will make sure that they are not.

I expect the 45% of Afghanistan's GDP from foreign aid if removed will quickly be replaced by smugglers.

[cromwell]

Is it really such an all or nothing decision? I have wept at the prospect of the future in Afghanistan and of course particularly the fate of the women who I can so easily relate to. The instinct is to try to extricate them and take them away from it all, and I am sure that they will be feeling exactly the same and want to run as far away as possible.

But are we missing something here in our efforts to be generous. To remove people from their home may seem like the best solution and initially will have massive appeal but can we guarantee them a better life really? Initially perhaps so, but long term? Into their old age? Are we in danger of pushing the pendulum too far one way or another? With the best will in the world we cannot help all at the moment, we are on very uncertain ground economically ourselves, so is it really fair to take vulnerable people onto an unsteady ship?

The Taliban have decisively walked into the country with little or no contest, we see them as bad people although they are asking at present for a chance. My personal view is that this will last just long enough to get the infidels out of their country when they will revert to type, but we have tried for 20 years to give the Afghans the strength and courage and means to defy the Taliban. It seems it was wasted. Perhaps they want a leadership which is strong and decisive and perhaps our substitute was not what they wanted when they saw it in action. After all they have always been governed by warlords.

Is it right to give so much that we risk them as well as ourselves? Put it on a basic level. We all have a finite pot of gold in terms of money, time and capability. If everyone in your town or even your street suddenly landed on your doorstep asking for help, how far could you extend yourself. Wouldn't some people have to be left out or left til later? This is no different. If we are to be able to help going forward then we have to be judicious now.

Well T00ts all I see is quite a few on here spouting I'm allright Jack,for the benefit it's not dewy eyed but a sense of not betraying those who worked for our service personell at great risk to themselves.

[patman post]

Is there any meaningful sanction the West can impose that China, Pakistan and Russia cannot help Afghanistan overcome...?

[Sampanviking]

Stable does not mean the population especially women will be safe.

Well no doubt the inevitable crippling sanctions the West will impose against the country that will surely follow, will make sure that they are not.

[papasmurf]

All the region has an interest to see Afghanistan finally become stable.

Stable does not mean the population especially women will be safe.

[papasmurf]

I expect most of the sons of the outgoing government ministers to end up being handed picks and shovels

If they are still in the country.

[Sheepy]

I think you pick the wrong country to compare it to.


I think Iran's Theocracy, coupled with the enforcement aspects of Saudi Arabia's wahabi extremism, are better examples of how the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan will go. I hold this belief from past personal dealings with Sausi and current dealings of acquaintancs of mine with the less extreme Arab states.

Maybe I did pick the wrong country, but then again, it is a very good example of what can be achieved.

[Sampanviking]

Talk of China and the Taliban raises questions. The Taliban are religious before anything else aren't they? Everything they say and do relates to Islam as they interpret it. Would they actually countenance a real collaboration with infidels as they might see them?

You may also wonder why they are not jumping up and down screaming "Death to China" on account of Genocide being committed against their co-religionists across the border in Xinjiang...

Maybe in both instances, reality indicates that the truth may be other than our media claims.

[T00ts]

Talk of China and the Taliban raises questions. The Taliban are religious before anything else aren't they? Everything they say and do relates to Islam as they interpret it. Would they actually countenance a real collaboration with infidels as they might see them?

[Sampanviking]

That is not as easy as you seem to think:-
https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/news/2021/08/17/the-afghanistan-china-belt-road-initiative/https://www.silkroadbriefing.com/news/2021/08/17/the-afghanistan-china-belt-road-initiative/

Interesting read. I will just repeat, if there is any country that can find a way to build, its China and if not through the Wakhan and they go through the neighbours, then both Tajikistan and Pakistan are already fully signed up Belt and Road project members. They have already built links into Pakistan through terrain that is probably even worse.
All the region has an interest to see Afghanistan finally become stable.

[Sheepy]

Is it really such an all or nothing decision? I have wept at the prospect of the future in Afghanistan and of course particularly the fate of the women who I can so easily relate to. The instinct is to try to extricate them and take them away from it all, and I am sure that they will be feeling exactly the same and want to run as far away as possible.

But are we missing something here in our efforts to be generous. To remove people from their home may seem like the best solution and initially will have massive appeal but can we guarantee them a better life really? Initially perhaps so, but long term? Into their old age? Are we in danger of pushing the pendulum too far one way or another? With the best will in the world we cannot help all at the moment, we are on very uncertain ground economically ourselves, so is it really fair to take vulnerable people onto an unsteady ship?

The Taliban have decisively walked into the country with little or no contest, we see them as bad people although they are asking at present for a chance. My personal view is that this will last just long enough to get the infidels out of their country when they will revert to type, but we have tried for 20 years to give the Afghans the strength and courage and means to defy the Taliban. It seems it was wasted. Perhaps they want a leadership which is strong and decisive and perhaps our substitute was not what they wanted when they saw it in action. After all they have always been governed by warlords.

Is it right to give so much that we risk them as well as ourselves? Put it on a basic level. We all have a finite pot of gold in terms of money, time and capability. If everyone in your town or even your street suddenly landed on your doorstep asking for help, how far could you extend yourself. Wouldn't some people have to be left out or left til later? This is no different. If we are to be able to help going forward then we have to be judicious now.

I wasn't ignoring you, just dealing with the usual rantings of Smurphy, as I was saying before being rudely interrupted your unconscious fears are not unfounded but steeped in history, but I can see you are going for the pragmatic approach. Not such a bad way of looking at things, our politicians are completely unreliable at the best of times.