Sunak is betraying us Brexiteers

[papasmurf]

And I suggest you read what I said.

I was not replying to you John.
Also I am commenting on the post Brexit situation where there very obviously are not 5.6 million EU citizens resident in Britain who are on out of work benefits which was the contention I am commenting about.

[johnofgwent]

To be able to register to remain in Britain the applicants have to supply a national insurance number and tax reference on the application form.  I have already linked an referenced that elsewhere on the forum.
I suggest you put your "manure," stirring spoon away.

And I suggest you read what I said.


The right to come to this country as an EU citizen, when we were in the EU, was not absolute, nor was it endless. You were, as you say, required to register for a NINO and the number of such registrations gave the lie to government statements of numbers of EU immigrants.


The legislation, as provided to me by the UK office of the European Parliament, stated categorically that the Uk had the absolute right to send back to their EU country of origin any and every EU passport holder who registered in this country to find work and failed to do so. The propaganda put out by the EU made much of this and laid the blame for our being overrun with immigrants NOT at the door of the EU for demanding the right of Freedom of Movement (which was massively modified from the original treaty of Rome) but at the feet of the UK parliament for not throwing them back as it was legislatively empowered to do ...


And successive governments of both political colours chose NOT to avail themselves of that legislation, for their own political ideologies.


I suggest it is you who needs to STFU with the muckraking. I'm just pointing out facts.

[T00ts]

OK, sorry, I misunderstood a bit, but I still stand by what I have written, in that the government are blame-shifting and using all in their power to avoid sticking to their policies and obligations in law.
They have gone off their heads in government, spending recklessly and expect pensioners to pay for it.
Meanwhile, they intend to throw billions more money they don't have at Net Zero, (another lefty fable god).

Thanks - I have to admit that BJ's days are numbered, but looking at Starmer today - even with a goal wide open somehow he still missed. I don't really understand how he manages it. I keep looking for an alternative and it isn't Sajid or Sunak for me.

[Barry]

Oh Barry surely you must know that I am not saying that pensioners are greedy. I was referring to the comment that some had made a goodly amount out of Covid. His ref being those in Government.

OK, sorry, I misunderstood a bit, but I still stand by what I have written, in that the government are blame-shifting and using all in their power to avoid sticking to their policies and obligations in law.
They have gone off their heads in government, spending recklessly and expect pensioners to pay for it.
Meanwhile, they intend to throw billions more money they don't have at Net Zero, (another lefty fable god).

[Sheepy]

I struggle sometimes to understand your points but fear that you might have disappeared too often down into the internetty deep. I don't need or want to live in a dog eat dog country. I don't see any point in destroying something just for the sake of of something new that may, or more likely may not, be better. We have developed this democracy over centuries and it has served us well, not always perfectly, but more often than not ok. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

We make the life of a politician increasingly difficult and threatened, is it any wonder that the calibre of those willing to risk the job has diminished?

Oh, now it's our fault they are of a terrible calibre, not really, they are bred for it and on the whole educated that way they lie their way into it and think they can always lie their way out of it. My points still stand and I feel the same for them the same as they do for the rest of us. Personally, I stopped buying into their nonsense years ago, about the only favour Blair did me ever, so something I can thank him for. At a guess they only feel so threatened that we have educated enough people to see through them. Obviously still not enough which is a little disappointing.

[T00ts]

Except he already has been saying for years, they were already saddled with a debt their grandchildren would still be paying and it would never be paid off, just another form of complete control. like it or not, I really don't care, they worked the majority of you like puppets and then said now feck you.
Which don't get me wrong, that can work both ways. All is fair in love and politics.

I struggle sometimes to understand your points but fear that you might have disappeared too often down into the internetty deep. I don't need or want to live in a dog eat dog country. I don't see any point in destroying something just for the sake of of something new that may, or more likely may not, be better. We have developed this democracy over centuries and it has served us well, not always perfectly, but more often than not ok. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

We make the life of a politician increasingly difficult and threatened, is it any wonder that the calibre of those willing to risk the job has diminished?

[Sheepy]

Oh Barry surely you must know that I am not saying that pensioners are greedy. I was referring to the comment that some had made a goodly amount out of Covid. His ref being those in Government.

When do we expect to be asked about Gov decisions? Our generation rarely asks for anything, but isn't it rather wonderful that so many people regardless of their feelings on the subject actually did as the Gov asked? If it wasn't directly for the elderly/infirm it was to keep us out of hospital to 'save the NHS'. Personally I am grateful to them all. Were there problems and mistakes? Yes of course, it's in the human DNA to make mistakes. Does that make me feel that regardless of the current situation we should hold the Gov to a plan that at the time it was set is no longer totally appropriate? No.

I understand the worry of those who have only their State pension and if Sunak has any sense he will cover that somehow. There are benefits that can come into play for heating, housing tax etc and they must be adapted accordingly, but it doesn't change my view that certainly I want to help the younguns get the country back on it's feet. They did me a service without asking - it's the least I can do. Why shouldn't we help where we can to relieve a little bit of the debt that they are saddled with for years?

Except he already has been saying for years, they were already saddled with a debt their grandchildren would still be paying and it would never be paid off, just another form of complete control. like it or not, I really don't care, they worked the majority of you like puppets and then said now feck you.
Which don't get me wrong, that can work both ways. All is fair in love and politics.

[T00ts]

Are you saying it is greedy for pensioners to expect to keep up with inflation?
I know that many state pension recipients are also in receipt of other pensions, for which they also worked and paid in, but there are also many that have only the state pension to live from. Perhaps they are greedy to expect not to lose out.

By the way, I never asked anyone to protect me from diseases. I didn't ask for the young to be furloughed, nor for the High Streets to be closed down. I didn't ask for billions to be wasted on schemes. 750 billion spent on Covid schemes and filling the pockets of friends and their contacts. Yet they are now railing at spending about 1% of that sum - on keeping the pensions up, as they are bound by law to do. Remember that much of that money ends up being spent back into the economy.

So perhaps we are selfish, after all.
I say 8.8% please. I didn't ask them to spend and waste the 750 billion.

Oh Barry surely you must know that I am not saying that pensioners are greedy. I was referring to the comment that some had made a goodly amount out of Covid. His ref being those in Government.

When do we expect to be asked about Gov decisions? Our generation rarely asks for anything, but isn't it rather wonderful that so many people regardless of their feelings on the subject actually did as the Gov asked? If it wasn't directly for the elderly/infirm it was to keep us out of hospital to 'save the NHS'. Personally I am grateful to them all. Were there problems and mistakes? Yes of course, it's in the human DNA to make mistakes. Does that make me feel that regardless of the current situation we should hold the Gov to a plan that at the time it was set is no longer totally appropriate? No.

I understand the worry of those who have only their State pension and if Sunak has any sense he will cover that somehow. There are benefits that can come into play for heating, housing tax etc and they must be adapted accordingly, but it doesn't change my view that certainly I want to help the younguns get the country back on it's feet. They did me a service without asking - it's the least I can do. Why shouldn't we help where we can to relieve a little bit of the debt that they are saddled with for years?

[Barry]

Because we have values. Because we don't just cut people off and never have. Because we would rather give than receive. Not just nationally but as individuals. Selfishness and greed do not sit well in this country we leave that to others.

Are you saying it is greedy for pensioners to expect to keep up with inflation?
I know that many state pension recipients are also in receipt of other pensions, for which they also worked and paid in, but there are also many that have only the state pension to live from. Perhaps they are greedy to expect not to lose out.

By the way, I never asked anyone to protect me from diseases. I didn't ask for the young to be furloughed, nor for the High Streets to be closed down. I didn't ask for billions to be wasted on schemes. 750 billion spent on Covid schemes and filling the pockets of friends and their contacts. Yet they are now railing at spending about 1% of that sum - on keeping the pensions up, as they are bound by law to do. Remember that much of that money ends up being spent back into the economy.

So perhaps we are selfish, after all.
I say 8.8% please. I didn't ask them to spend and waste the 750 billion.

[papasmurf]

A better question is why did we not deport every EU immigrant who failed to find, or remain in, paid work after the time frame to find such ended

To be able to register to remain in Britain the applicants have to supply a national insurance number and tax reference on the application form.  I have already linked an referenced that elsewhere on the forum.
I suggest you put your "manure," stirring spoon away.

[Sheepy]

This is apparently the case by all reports but then we are unable to stop other's greed. It doesn't mean we have to condone it. They live by their own choices - it's an individual thing, but we are a Christian country and there is a silent majority I think who even though they wouldn't put it down to Christianity as such, believe in the basic tenets. One of the biggest is the one of forgiveness which is largely forgotten. The Government - whichever colour - tends to do their best in a crisis but perhaps we forget that they are only human and we don't walk in their shoes.

Well one thing for sure, I don't forget, they are lying toe rags and always will be. I cannot be bothered getting into their manipulative ways to cash in either. I have been over that enough.

[johnofgwent]

That is a lie, "mostly on the dole," you need to get your facts straight.

Latest dataset:-
Less than a million in total. (That is all categories.)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/august2021#unemployment

A better question is why did we not deport every EU immigrant who failed to find, or remain in, paid work after the time frame to find such ended


The FOM elements of EEC and later EU membership never changed. We always had the right to chuck EU migrants back, but we never did. Some politicians chose to blame the EU for that.

[T00ts]

Ah, I see, but it didn't stop the government cashing in on their crisis, did it? which in actual it is said some of them did rather well out of?

This is apparently the case by all reports but then we are unable to stop other's greed. It doesn't mean we have to condone it. They live by their own choices - it's an individual thing, but we are a Christian country and there is a silent majority I think who even though they wouldn't put it down to Christianity as such, believe in the basic tenets. One of the biggest is the one of forgiveness which is largely forgotten. The Government - whichever colour - tends to do their best in a crisis but perhaps we forget that they are only human and we don't walk in their shoes.

[papasmurf]

Why didn't we deport the 6 million EU nationals who are mostly on the dole?

That is a lie, "mostly on the dole," you need to get your facts straight.

Latest dataset:-
Less than a million in total. (That is all categories.)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/employmentintheuk/august2021#unemployment

[Sheepy]

If we all had a crystal ball life would be much easier. Governments can only respond as best they can with changing circumstances. The triple lock didn't expect Covid. BJ didn't expect to shut down the country and didn't want to initially. The Treasury cannot do the impossible unless we stump up. So some want to do the Gov down. It's a bit feeble to cling on to circumstances that no-one predicted before Covid hit us so hard.

Are there credible alternatives? If there are I suggest phone calls to Rishi might be well received.

Because we have values. Because we don't just cut people off and never have. Because we would rather give than receive. Not just nationally but as individuals. Selfishness and greed do not sit well in this country we leave that to others.

Ah, I see, but it didn't stop the government cashing in on their crisis, did it? which in actual fact it is said some of them did rather well out of?