How could direct democracy work?

[Borchester]

How would that avoid hung parliaments all the time?

It wouldn't.

Hung parliaments mean that the other chap feels as strongly about the matter as you do, so the only solution is to get together like like civilised men and women and hammer out a compromise.

[T00ts]

You are being a tad unfair on me Thomas. All I am asking is exactly what would change? What would actually improve? A lot of what you say is true about the current situation but I don't think it is all down to parliament or the 2 party system.

Parties are in power on small voting numbers so do we go compulsory voting? What would that actually achieve in terms of quality? Are you saying that other countries with their PR have better quality government/MPs? Show me. All I ever hear is of months of wrangling to even get a government. We had similar when Cameron and whoever was labour leader at the time traded with Nick Clegg giving him a much stronger position in Government than he deserved. Look at the chaos that created both at the time and long after.

To some extent I agree that there are perhaps too few voices of dissent at present in the HofC and it doesn't hold the Gov to account enough, but that has been a result of the dreadful uproar over the Brexit referendum result and the inability even of those elected to govern, to accept the vote. We are in really unsettled times and for me this is the very last moment to be pushing for massive electoral upheaval, and so far no-one has come up with a truly workable plan. How long is it since we had a ref on PR. It doesn't seem that long ago.  The advocates of this are going to have to work much harder to persuade me, not because I don't want change, but I have lived long enough to beware king's new clothes.

[Thomas]

What if like the debacle in HofC over Brexit they simply cannot get any agreement?

The debacle in the house of commons over brexit wasnt about not being able to come to an agreement.

The problem was the majority of members of that house at the time were in complete agreement about stopping brexit , and merely tried to confuse and delay implementing democracy as long as they could before the invitable happend and they were kicked out.

That period post 2016 to 2019 has to be one of the biggest embarressments in ths history of that parliament. Non legally binding referendums and all the other guff the anti democrats in that place punted at the time is something that needs deeply looking into but as ever has been swept under the carpet post johnsons victory and implementation of brexit.

How anyone can argue for the continuation of such an abomination is beyond me.

[Sheepy]

No i dont think that is what anyone is saying. What i have heard people from all political sides say over the last decade or more i have been having political discussions on the interwebby is the current westmisnter system isnt democracy  , its a farce when you can have people like tony blair for example and his new labour party elected with a thumping majority on a fifth of the electorate , then doing whatever the hell he likes when in power with little or no accountability for his actions.

People havent liked what is happening in westminster all my life , so its nothing new.

You seem to be saying lets stick with what we have as its the way we have always done it and simply refusing to think about change .

Clearly in my view , the old two party system is long by its sell by date in westminster , and politics needs a shake up from what i can see in your country.

I would guess the vast majority of the electorate are more than ready to change things, it has always been a matter of when will they learn voting for the Westminster party changes nothing.

[Thomas]

It all seems so easy - we don't like what is currently happening in Westminster so let's all throw it up in the air. I might be a bit of a cynic but aren't we simply saying we don't like government?

No i dont think that is what anyone is saying. What i have heard people from all political sides say over the last decade or more i have been having political discussions on the interwebby is the current westmisnter system isnt democracy  , its a farce when you can have people like tony blair for example and his new labour party elected with a thumping majority on a fifth of the electorate , then doing whatever the hell he likes when in power with little or no accountability for his actions.

People havent liked what is happening in westminster all my life , so its nothing new.

You seem to be saying lets stick with what we have as its the way we have always done it and simply refusing to think about change .

Clearly in my view , the old two party system is long by its sell by date in westminster , and politics needs a shake up from what i can see in your country.

[Thomas]

How would that avoid hung parliaments all the time? We have seen how other countries have struggled to with this system. What real benefit would it be or is it simply another ruse that would give voice to those not actually wanted by the majority. The minute people start talking PR it just represents more chaos to me.

Sorry toots , but most of europe manages to work on a pr basis , so why couldnt england?

You have a system in place in your country that is producing bench warming career politicians of ever decreasing quality , and it comes as no surprise to me anyway that the current system in westminster is , and has been for years now , producing the very chaos you lament in your post about?

The system is broken , stitched up in favour of two parties the vast majority of the various nations in the yookay cant abide so why stick with it?

[T00ts]

Myself and a few others have been explaining, most of the crisis you think have occurred naturally are manufactured for you for political reasons. If you could vote to stop them being manufactured in the first place, it would be stopped before the waggon could run out of control.

You are asking for a very savvy population to be able to sort the wood from the chaff. People will still be persuaded by ideology and what the manufacturers tell them. All it does is dilute government, allow those in power to avoid being answerable and causing all sorts of delay in decisions being made. It might make 'the people' feel more involved but in actual fact the majority don't live with politics. They vote and generally leave them to get on with it knowing that next time around they can teach them a lesson. Perhaps more anoraks should stand for election. I don't see this particular change as constructive.

[Nick]

under Barry's proposals he could've been stopped.

Not when the debate brought to the house was complete lies. How could they have debated Saddam and WMD's when they didn't exist?

[Sheepy]

It all seems so easy - we don't like what is currently happening in Westminster so let's all throw it up in the air. I might be a bit of a cynic but aren't we simply saying we don't like government? So we get to play a greater part in the decision process but the crew we have in Parliament will be a mix match of all sorts of ideas and ideology. How will they vote in Parliament? Will they vote as per their constituency vote or with their ideology? Will they naturally create alliances that will find them trading to get their way? Who would be the equivalent of PM? What trading would have to do to hold his position? I can see all sorts of unsavory dealings being exacerbated.

To get a proper set of numbers will voting need to be compulsory? How will it operate as Cromwell said when there is a crisis? Would tropps be on standby for 6 months while we all vote whether to send them out? What if like the debacle in HofC over Brexit they simply cannot get any agreement? Do we throw them out? By the time we've messed about trying to get an operational government we would have been invaded, dead from the plague or whatever.  The grass always looks greener until you get there. Where do we have a country with PR that we would consider that they have a good role model of PR government worth copying?

Myself and a few others have been explaining, most of the crisis you think have occurred naturally are manufactured for you for political reasons. If you could vote to stop them being manufactured in the first place, it would be stopped before the waggon could run out of control.

[Sheepy]

Indeed, and I'm Not saying you did. Can't be bothered to look the exact number up at this hour but I'm reasonably sure Bliar had a strong majority whom would had toed the party line and passed anything he brought to the dispatch box.

Which if you have noticed a large number of Labour party members have left or been expelled for not accepting it could well happen again, they just haven't cottoned on yet to an alternative voting system such as DD, which stop people like Blair being enabled again. Or even stopping them being used as a way into power. A rude awakening for a fair few of them I am sure, it is surely only a matter of time before they grow up and realise their votes never meant a thing anyway.

[T00ts]

It all seems so easy - we don't like what is currently happening in Westminster so let's all throw it up in the air. I might be a bit of a cynic but aren't we simply saying we don't like government? So we get to play a greater part in the decision process but the crew we have in Parliament will be a mix match of all sorts of ideas and ideology. How will they vote in Parliament? Will they vote as per their constituency vote or with their ideology? Will they naturally create alliances that will find them trading to get their way? Who would be the equivalent of PM? What trading would have to do to hold his position? I can see all sorts of unsavory dealings being exacerbated.

To get a proper set of numbers will voting need to be compulsory? How will it operate as Cromwell said when there is a crisis? Would tropps be on standby for 6 months while we all vote whether to send them out? What if like the debacle in HofC over Brexit they simply cannot get any agreement? Do we throw them out? By the time we've messed about trying to get an operational government we would have been invaded, dead from the plague or whatever.  The grass always looks greener until you get there. Where do we have a country with PR that we would consider that they have a good role model of PR government worth copying?

[Sheepy]

Yes he did have the majority,the point is under Barry's proposals he could've been stopped.

I'm not saying this direct democracy lark is the the answer to any or all our prayers but it's all worth looking at.

The present system has been around a long time but confidence is low,that needs to be put right whether this is the answer I'm not sure at all because in pursuit of such ideals things can go wrong and we end up in a worse position.

It is simple really, either you carry on voting for people who say they represent you, but have no intention of doing so and lie about absolutely anything and everything backed by a media and civil service who sow fear and lies for constant control or you set about changing it, all Barry is doing is saying the choice has been made for you and it isn't even that difficult a choice when you see clearly what is happening.

[cromwell]

Indeed, and I'm Not saying you did. Can't be bothered to look the exact number up at this hour but I'm reasonably sure Bliar had a strong majority whom would had toed the party line and passed anything he brought to the dispatch box.

Yes he did have the majority,the point is under Barry's proposals he could've been stopped.

I'm not saying this direct democracy lark is the the answer to any or all our prayers but it's all worth looking at.

The present system has been around a long time but confidence is low,that needs to be put right whether this is the answer I'm not sure at all because in pursuit of such ideals things can go wrong and we end up in a worse position.

[Nick]

I didn't say it would,I said we would've had a chance so you cannot say for definite it wouldn't have been challenged.

Indeed, and I'm Not saying you did. Can't be bothered to look the exact number up at this hour but I'm reasonably sure Bliar had a strong majority whom would had toed the party line and passed anything he brought to the dispatch box.

[cromwell]

And in the case of Bliar, the info he would have presented to the house for debate would have been Blair faced lies, therefore most likely would have been passed anyway, changing nothing.

I didn't say it would,I said we would've had a chance so you cannot say for definite it wouldn't have been challenged.