How could direct democracy work?

[Nick]

If you bother to check the wreath laying on terrorists graves was quite deliberate nasty propaganda.
Had the gutter press bothered to check, the terrorists were offed by Mossad and have no known graves.
As for the other photo were they current/active terrorists?
You really do need to check before posting such material.

The reason for their demise is immaterial, Corbyn was stood side by side with Hamas, something you said was made up.

[HIGHLIGHT]Actually he did  not[/HIGHLIGHT], Netanyahu got a lot of anti-Corbyn lies and propaganda into the media/press and even inside the  Labour party by paying for it.

[papasmurf]

Yeah right 😂

If you bother to check the wreath laying on terrorists graves was quite deliberate nasty propaganda.
Had the gutter press bothered to check, the terrorists were offed by Mossad and have no known graves.
As for the other photo were they current/active terrorists?
You really do need to check before posting such material.

[Nick]

Actually he did  not, Netanyahu got a lot of anti-Corbyn lies and propaganda into the media/press and even inside the  Labour party by paying for it.

Yeah right 😂

[Sheepy]

Actually he did  not, Netanyahu got a lot of anti-Corbyn lies and propaganda into the media/press and even inside the  Labour party by paying for it.

But what you can have instead is the usual suspects arguing the toss over the Westminster party.

[papasmurf]

. He stood should you shoulder with terrorists,

Actually he did  not, Netanyahu got a lot of anti-Corbyn lies and propaganda into the media/press and even inside the  Labour party by paying for it.

[patman post]

They wanted Brexit and didn't trust Labour.

But the polling speaks for itself....

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-huge-public-support-for-jeremy-corbyns-manifesto-promises-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

What the left needs is someone the public like selling such policies, properly costed. Many of them of course don't actually cost anything, eg raising the minimum wage or capping rents. After all, excessive rents are not reward for effort. They are reward for sitting on your arse and taking advantage of someone else's efforts.

And you have ignored the fact that the left wing vote frequently outpolls the right wing vote - even in 2019 the Tories only polled 44%. The problem is that FPTP punishes the left because their vote is split amongst several parties. If these were ever to unite on a program to get PR done, the Tories would be screwed.

I suggest the problem is with Labour — it needs to become attractive to today's voters. The old reactionary working class anti-toff rhetoric doesn't get votes any more. Many voters want to be able to get the good things they see others have in life, and are willing to work to get them.

Voters in traditional Labour areas don't want to be repeatedly told that they have to fight for a minimum wage because their lives are crap, where they live is crap, to want anything more than beer and fags is crap, and everything else they have is crap.

That's why Labour support has drained away. Until the Labour Party gets a popular charismatic Leader, heading a team of optimists reaching for the sunny uplands, it's likely to stay wallowing in a grey swamp of its own doings...

[Sheepy]

Right from the off you never put any meat on the bones with the assumption we wouldn't get it and never will.

A mind reader now eh! And arrogant with it too the problem being when Barry was asked he gave and said what he believed to be right amended from a wiki explanation of it.

We still don't have any idea of you interpretation of the idea other than the arrogant WE who is his we that is going to introduce this whether us deluded peasants who want to know how it will all work like it or not........and you have the cheek to call out the Westminster party,it seems it along with all its faults shares a contempt for the electorate along with you and your we.

But,but I want an argument about it, I don't care what you want. You are not a populist.

[Nick]

That it seems revolutionary to you says more about you than about it.

I was being sarcastic as you well know.

[cromwell]

What would be the point arguing with people who don't get it and never will, when we are going to introduce it anyway. We already have a majority for it, just waiting for the Westminster party to run out of steam and lies, it just takes patience.

Right from the off you never put any meat on the bones with the assumption we wouldn't get it and never will.

A mind reader now eh! And arrogant with it too the problem being when Barry was asked he gave and said what he believed to be right amended from a wiki explanation of it.

We still don't have any idea of your interpretation of the idea other than the arrogant WE who is this we that is going to introduce this whether us deluded peasants who want to know how it will all work like it or not........and you have the cheek to call out the Westminster party,it seems it along with all its faults shares a contempt for the electorate along with you and your we.

[srb7677]

this revolutionary manifesto...

Am about to leave for work so no time to say much.

But the manifesto promises in question amounted to no more than moderate social democracy of a kind already in place in most of western Europe.

That it seems revolutionary to you says more about you than about it.

[Sheepy]

Right so here you are on a discussion forum with an idea you've been banging on about for a long time that took Barry to post how it all worked.

And now you tell us you don't want to discuss it............marvellous.

What would be the point arguing with people who don't get it and never will, when we are going to introduce it anyway. We already have a majority for it, just waiting for the Westminster party to run out of steam and lies, it just takes patience. 

[Nick]

They wanted Brexit and didn't trust Labour.

But the polling speaks for itself....

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-huge-public-support-for-jeremy-corbyns-manifesto-promises-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

What the left needs is someone the public like selling such policies, properly costed. Many of them of course don't actually cost anything, eg raising the minimum wage or capping rents. After all, excessive rents are not reward for effort. They are reward for sitting on your arse and taking advantage of someone else's efforts.

And you have ignored the fact that the left wing vote frequently outpolls the right wing vote - even in 2019 the Tories only polled 44%. The problem is that FPTP punishes the left because their vote is split amongst several parties. If these were ever to unite on a program to get PR done, the Tories would be screwed.

Firstly, he was never going to get elected. He stood should you shoulder with terrorists, didn't sing the national anthem, these things are important to voters.

As for the manifesto:

Plans to renationalise the railways;   Do you remember British Rail? It was hideous.
Freeze the retirement age;   What's going to pay for that?
Ban zero hours contracts;    Some people like zero hour contracts, it suits them.
Increase taxes on the rich;   Wow!! That's a new one from Labour. Corbyn net worth £3 million??
Build hundreds of thousands of new council homes.   What's going to pay for that?

I remember at the time this revolutionary manifesto was costed at some vast sum and Labour couldn't answer where the money was coming from, not even Diane Abacus could answer it.

[srb7677]

They liked the messages of hope given out by parties that believe in rewards for effort in the last few elections, rather than compensation for being poor...

They wanted Brexit and didn't trust Labour.

But the polling speaks for itself....

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll-huge-public-support-for-jeremy-corbyns-manifesto-promises-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

What the left needs is someone the public like selling such policies, properly costed. Many of them of course don't actually cost anything, eg raising the minimum wage or capping rents. After all, excessive rents are not reward for effort. They are reward for sitting on your arse and taking advantage of someone else's efforts.

And you have ignored the fact that the left wing vote frequently outpolls the right wing vote - even in 2019 the Tories only polled 44%. The problem is that FPTP punishes the left because their vote is split amongst several parties. If these were ever to unite on a program to get PR done, the Tories would be screwed.

[patman post]

That is a convenient yet lazy and somewhat false assumption, beloved of right wingers.

Yes, majority opinion is right of centre on some issues, but on many others it is left of centre. When asked, between two thirds and three quarters of the electorate like many of the policies of Labour's 2017 manifesto, for example. And if you dispute that fact I can easily supply the polling evidence. It is not hard to find.

The reason Labour has been out of power so long and so often is twofold. It is often at war with itself, as it is right now. And the left of centre vote is divided, with some of it going to Plaid or the SNP, some of it going to the Lib Dems and some of it to the Greens. Together, all these often outpoll the Tories. But that counts for nothing under FPTP  if they are all also standing against each other.

I think you conveniently dismiss the ability of the electorate to know both what it wants and what it doesn't trust.   

The ready examples of the way the Labour party's extreme Left activists engineered Corbyn and Ed Miliband into the Labour leadership, and the way internal factions like Momentum have tried to take over the party, are not fabricated smears taken on-board by Right Wingers. They happened, and the electorate saw that they were bad, and wanted something better. 

They liked the messages of hope given out by parties that believe in rewards for effort in the last few elections, rather than compensation for being poor...

[cromwell]

But then I have already explained I am not here to argue about it, we will have it come the end. How you vote for each policy is your own choice, on its own merits.

Right so here you are on a discussion forum with an idea you've been banging on about for a long time that took Barry to post how it all worked.

And now you tell us you don't want to discuss it............marvellous.