M25 - Why?

[Barry]

That is blatantly untrue. But you are a long standing climate change denialist. Thankfully now you are in that respect part of a small and ever dwindling minority.

I know.
I'm off to Sheppey later today, that's if it hasn't been submerged by the rising sea levels.

[Sheepy]

Seems to me, if the climate change is so drastic and I was reading over 50% of the youth feel they have no hope, climate change will look after the population problem before any human interference can.

[srb7677]

They will need to do a lot of intensifying, because they are pretty negligible right now.

That is blatantly untrue. But you are a long standing climate change denialist. Thankfully now you are in that respect part of a small and ever dwindling minority.

Your denialism will of course make no difference in the long run. Most of humanity can see what is happening. The big question is no longer one of belief, but whether or not humanity can overcome it's yearning for short term rewards in the interests of a long term future. Denialists themselves are now too few in number to make much difference to that choice.

[Barry]

And it will sadly get cheaper when the effects of climate change intensify.

They will need to do a lot of intensifying, because they are pretty negligible right now.

[srb7677]

What you fail to highlight is the fact that life is cheap in several countries, has been for centuries and will remain so.

And it will sadly get cheaper when the effects of climate change intensify.

[johnofgwent]

Population is certainly an issue which goes unmentioned and ought to be addressed. Because it is mathematically obvious that even if we all halved our carbon footprints, it would make zero difference if there were twice as many of us.

Fact is that in many western countries population growth is no longer a serious issue. In the UK ours is growing mostly due to migrants from poorer countries coming here rather than by excessive breeding by the indiginous population.

Problem is in many poorer countries with lower life expentencies and no pensions or welfare for older people, having lots of kids seems like a necessary insurance policy, ensuring that enough of them survive to take care of you when you are too old to work or take care of yourself. And a lack of readily available contraceptives in some poorer countries just makes this worse. Fix this, and population growth in poorer countries would decline dramatically.

There is no other way of reducing population size in the long run except by globally reproducing more slowly than the deasth rate. The alternative - just killing people - is not acceptable. And of course this would mean societies becoming more top heavy with fewer younger people and a lot of older ones, which will bring it's own problems. But somehow the issue of population does need to be recognised and addressed.

What you fail to highlight is the fact that life is cheap in several countries, has been for centuries and will remain so.

[srb7677]

So reduce the population.

Population is certainly an issue which goes unmentioned and ought to be addressed. Because it is mathematically obvious that even if we all halved our carbon footprints, it would make zero difference if there were twice as many of us.

Fact is that in many western countries population growth is no longer a serious issue. In the UK ours is growing mostly due to migrants from poorer countries coming here rather than by excessive breeding by the indiginous population.

Problem is in many poorer countries with lower life expentencies and no pensions or welfare for older people, having lots of kids seems like a necessary insurance policy, ensuring that enough of them survive to take care of you when you are too old to work or take care of yourself. And a lack of readily available contraceptives in some poorer countries just makes this worse. Fix this, and population growth in poorer countries would decline dramatically.

There is no other way of reducing population size in the long run except by globally reproducing more slowly than the deasth rate. The alternative - just killing people - is not acceptable. And of course this would mean societies becoming more top heavy with fewer younger people and a lot of older ones, which will bring it's own problems. But somehow the issue of population does need to be recognised and addressed.

[T00ts]

Climate change is another huge subject but I don't deny it. It is obvious. I also think it is not in our control. No matter what we do if we are honest about it we all surely know that the world will come to an end.

Having said that I am more than happy to make whatever changes makes people happier and more in control but doing what these people are doing is simply counter productive. Many will simply dig their heels against them.

[johnofgwent]

I've seen video today of the Police just standing there doing nothing. A couple of burly blokes come along, snatch the banner from one of them. They then move to remove them from the highway and the police tell them to stop.
I'm pretty sure that a citizen has a common law power to remove anyone wilfully obstructing the Highway.
Even if I'm mistaken, the Police can call on citizens to assist them in an arrest, but what I witnessed today is contrary to law and common sense.
It's almost as if the Police have been told to do nothing. Which is neglect of their duty to clear the Highway of people wilfully obstructing it.
Incomprehensible. There's plenty of police to lock up some women protesting about the killing of Sarah Everard, Cromwell.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05013/


What you witnessed was a failure by the police to exercise their powers to remove protestors who obstruct the public highway.

[cromwell]

I've seen video today of the Police just standing there doing nothing. A couple of burly blokes come along, snatch the banner from one of them. They then move to remove them from the highway and the police tell them to stop.
I'm pretty sure that a citizen has a common law power to remove anyone wilfully obstructing the Highway.
Even if I'm mistaken, the Police can call on citizens to assist them in an arrest, but what I witnessed today is contrary to law and common sense.
It's almost as if the Police have been told to do nothing. Which is neglect of their duty to clear the Highway of people wilfully obstructing it.
Incomprehensible. There's plenty of police to lock up some women protesting about the killing of Sarah Everard, Cromwell.

In general terms there are not enough coppers,the met look fairly immune and as I've said before to you the met isn't popular with other coppers.

[Barry]

What is it with the 'green' protesters (no I don't think they are aliens)? How many times now have they disrupted the M25. I read that the police arrested them then let them go to repeat the chaos. Isn't it a crime? Is it because they are protesters and therefore have special dispensation or something? It seems that all you have to do is hoist a banner of some kind and you are free to do what you like. Why are the cops so ineffectual?

I've seen video today of the Police just standing there doing nothing. A couple of burly blokes come along, snatch the banner from one of them. They then move to remove them from the highway and the police tell them to stop.
I'm pretty sure that a citizen has a common law power to remove anyone wilfully obstructing the Highway.
Even if I'm mistaken, the Police can call on citizens to assist them in an arrest, but what I witnessed today is contrary to law and common sense.
It's almost as if the Police have been told to do nothing. Which is neglect of their duty to clear the Highway of people wilfully obstructing it.
Incomprehensible. There's plenty of police to lock up some women protesting about the killing of Sarah Everard, Cromwell.

[johnofgwent]

The problem is that the right to protest is a fundamental human right in any free society - one which the current government is legislating to restrict.

And as an issue - except in the minds of a diminishing number of denialists - climate change is as serious an issue as it gets. It poses an existential threat in the long run. Worse case scenario would be triggering feedback loops which create a runaway greenhouse effect. If the Earth became another Venus we and almost all other life on this planet could no longer live here. Long before that vast swathes of the world would become uninhabitable, leading to resource wars, mass death, and desperation-driven migration on a scale unimaginable today. For those worried about migrants crossing the Channel today, you aint seen nothing yet if we carry on as we are.

Compared to that danger, a bit of disruption on the M25 pales into insignificance.

So reduce the population. xR's looney tunes are all 18+ yes.


Fine. Roll out a few lorry drivers. French ones would be good.

[srb7677]

The problem is that the right to protest is a fundamental human right in any free society - one which the current government is legislating to restrict.

And as an issue - except in the minds of a diminishing number of denialists - climate change is as serious an issue as it gets. It poses an existential threat in the long run. Worse case scenario would be triggering feedback loops which create a runaway greenhouse effect. If the Earth became another Venus we and almost all other life on this planet could no longer live here. Long before that vast swathes of the world would become uninhabitable, leading to resource wars, mass death, and desperation-driven migration on a scale unimaginable today. For those worried about migrants crossing the Channel today, you aint seen nothing yet if we carry on as we are.

Compared to that danger, a bit of disruption on the M25 pales into insignificance.

[T00ts]

Because we live in a relatively free society,and there aren't enough coppers anyway.

Aw come on! Free society? What about the poor chaps trying to get to work or wherever? One car driver was trying to move them the other day and the cops landed on him. We have it all wrong.

[cromwell]

What is it with the 'green' protesters (no I don't think they are aliens)? How many times now have they disrupted the M25. I read that the police arrested them then let them go to repeat the chaos. Isn't it a crime? Is it because they are protesters and therefore have special dispensation or something? It seems that all you have to do is hoist a banner of some kind and you are free to do what you like. Why are the cops so ineffectual?

Because we live in a relatively free society,and there aren't enough coppers anyway.