So Shamima Begum wants to come back

[patman post]

She was brainwashed and radicalised while living in the UK. She's was totally immersed in the environment she fled to for many years. She's still surrounded by similar people irrespective of whether they too are professing radical changes of heart. So for the majority of her life she's been subjected to the malign influence and perverted beliefs of the Islamic State.   

Frankly, I wouldn't trust her an inch, but it's up to others to decide whether or not to allow her back...

[johnofgwent]

Pretty much john. Scotland doesnt and didnt have the same relationship with England wales had. Our church and legal system remained seperate , with all the quirks and differences.

As far as im aware every party in scotland except the tories supports voting at 16 , so it isnt just an SNP thing cooked up to destroy the union , but part of a wider view held by the scottish people and our representatives.

Anyway im going off topic here , but no way should shamina begum be allowed back into the uk .

Cheers.


I don't think you are going quite as off topic as you suggest.


I've said in regard to several threads here and on the old forum that in many aspects of life there is an argument to be made that our current legal system south of the border, with its 10 year "age of criminal responsibility", 16 year "age of consent" and 18 year "age of majority" may need a shake up.


I see this Scottish position where those who have attained the age of 16 have rights and responsibilities as excellent ammunition to destroy the argument of the left that these girls were too young to understand what they were doing....

[Nick]

She should be let back in and arrested as soon as she lands. Then debriefed by the security services. (That could take months.)

Conduct the trial where she is, find her guilty, execute her and bring her home in a box. I'm fine with that.

[Nick]

I tried to find the ref but can't. There was an MP in the last few days who more or less said - if you knew what I know you would make the same decision

It was SJ on GMTV with Suzanna Reid and Richard Madeley.

[Thomas]

Oh, I see, so is that how 16 year olds could piss off to Gretna to marry then ?

Pretty much john. Scotland doesnt and didnt have the same relationship with England wales had. Our church and legal system remained seperate , with all the quirks and differences.

As far as im aware every party in scotland except the tories supports voting at 16 , so it isnt just an SNP thing cooked up to destroy the union , but part of a wider view held by the scottish people and our representatives.

Anyway im going off topic here , but no way should shamina begum be allowed back into the uk .

[johnofgwent]

Not quite true john. Scotland uses the age of "legal capacity " which is 16 , and england/wales  uses the age of adulthood  , which is 18 , which means 16 to 18 year olds in scotland have rights , with caveats , that england wales 16 to 18 year olds dont.

The voting issue i dont agree with you on , as we have discussed before , but i fully agree this shamina begum woman should not be allowed to return to the uk , and i did laugh when i saw a picture of her on twitter tarted up in baseball cap and western style clothing to give the impression she was just "one of the girls from next door".

Im sure though eventually she will be allowed back , get her way and make a fortune selling her story to newspapers and publishers .

Oh, I see, so is that how 16 year olds could piss off to Gretna to marry then ?

[Thomas]

The SNP has done the same as they know they need the votes of children too immature to take responsibility for their acts to keep them in power.


You don't get to have it both ways. Either she was a child and we need to re-run the elections with only adult citizens voting, or her age group are adult enough to vote, in which case she should be in Nuremberg facing hanging.

Not quite true john. Scotland uses the age of "legal capacity " which is 16 , and england/wales  uses the age of adulthood  , which is 18 , which means 16 to 18 year olds in scotland have rights , with caveats , that england wales 16 to 18 year olds dont.

The voting issue i dont agree with you on , as we have discussed before , but i fully agree this shamina begum woman should not be allowed to return to the uk , and i did laugh when i saw a picture of her on twitter tarted up in baseball cap and western style clothing to give the impression she was just "one of the girls from next door".

Im sure though eventually she will be allowed back , get her way and make a fortune selling her story to newspapers and publishers .

[johnofgwent]

Ok so that's her crime. I wonder if she was aware of that or even if she is now? On a humanitarian level to her as the young impressionable youngster she was at the time I feel incredibly sorry for the great mistake she and her two friends made. Her 2 friends died, she has lost 3 children, it can't be a happy place that she is in. I am relieved that I haven't been asked to judge her but I can still see both sides and bow to the Government decision based on what  Javid has said. But it's a tough one.

Well, I'll wait until your daughter gets raped by one of their cult and see what you think then ....


Look, she KNEW they were an armed group hell bent on overthrowing this country by force. And she still went to their side. There's no way back from that. She is not a refugee, she's a willing collaborator. If her family want to go support her, chuck them out too.

This article from a while ago



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/16/shamima-begum-how-the-case-developed


The key points are all there, she left with several girls from the same school, with the express intent of joining ISIS, married a dutch citizen who was already active in the group, and stated categorically when found nine months pregnant in a refugee camp that she had no regrets joining the group.


Well I bet she is regretting it now, but hey .... I don't do forgiveness where blowing us up in the name of the caliphate us concerned ...

[T00ts]

1.
If she comes back to the UK, she has to be arrested and imprisoned. That costs money. There's no guarantee that she has any currently useful intelligence, even if she did, why should she give it up.
Why should we pay for her imprisonment when she is better out of this country?
2.
It's not worth the risk. If she gets some shyster lawyer to represent her (at our expense) she might be out of prison in quite a short time.
3.
Once released, the risk is that she will blow herself up outside a bar or synagogue or anywhere else people are taking part in enjoying activities that her cult deems against Sharia law.

Wherever she is now is fine. Holland would be even better, they deserve her, as they have some really nice ghettos which are the haunt of people who attacked the Bataclan.

That seems really harsh to me. I have real trouble with denying her repentance or forgiveness. I know some are saying that she is being dishonest when she says she regrets but it has to start somewhere and perhaps if she was back here that could properly be assessed. A big part of me feels that she should be on a path where her regret and ultimately our forgiveness should be possible. Aren't we in danger of becoming as bad as those who radicalised her in the first place? She was an easy target, just a schoolgirl, would they have let her go if she showed she wasn't happy? Did she feel that her very existence in  paradise depended on her following them. Was she simply gullible as so many of that age are and think that the ISIS way was it for ever? I don't know. I worry for her future and there is a definite conflict in our ability to judge her. We do not really know what is in her heart. How much of that interview was her just steeling herself to get through it?

[Barry]

1.
If she comes back to the UK, she has to be arrested and imprisoned. That costs money. There's no guarantee that she has any currently useful intelligence, even if she did, why should she give it up.
Why should we pay for her imprisonment when she is better out of this country?
2.
It's not worth the risk. If she gets some shyster lawyer to represent her (at our expense) she might be out of prison in quite a short time.
3.
Once released, the risk is that she will blow herself up outside a bar or synagogue or anywhere else people are taking part in enjoying activities that her cult deems against Sharia law.

Wherever she is now is fine. Holland would be even better, they deserve her, as they have some really nice ghettos which are the haunt of people who attacked the Bataclan.

[T00ts]

No one disputes that. She is an unpleasant dimwit, but that is no reason to banish her

I read that and my immediate reaction was that she was no dimwit. She must have had something about her to manage to actually get out there. Even with help and the courage that happens when a group decides an action together. I wonder who was the main instigator. Three girls all the same age all radicalised together, all decided to take off into the unknown thousands of miles away. Were they so innocent beforehand? Shamima hasn't abdicated responsibility has she? She hasn't said that one of the friends encouraged her. I find the whole circumstance as it appeared to played out really difficult to understand.

I watched part of her interview the other day and I saw a lovely young woman. Others saw a hard nut. I don't know. She must have been desensitised. Things that would freak me out completely seem not to have phased her. At 15yrs she would be deemed legally responsible but can we really dismiss the affect someone with the will and ability to indoctrinate would have on what must have been fairly naive girls simply because of their ages. I can imagine sweet talk. Even seasoned mature women can be sweet talked and often are by rogues who want their money and a UK passport.

Could Shamima be de-radicalised? Has her husband? I haven't heard her reference her husband in terms of lasting affection, loyalty etc. Presumably there is a lot of info not at our disposal.

[cromwell]

No one disputes that. She is an unpleasant dimwit, but that is no reason to banish her

Unpleasant for sure but no dimwit,she came across as cold and calculating.

[cromwell]

I wonder what the future will bring for her. She is only 23? she potentially has a long life to live with her regret. I can't imagine wearing her shoes.

well funnily enough I was comparing her future to that of of Emma Radacanu just a few years younger and what a contrast.

Both in the news one famous at such a young age the other infamous.

[T00ts]

I'm not sure it's even that alone,I suppose like Phil the Greeks will in decades it will be known.

TBH Andrew Neil nearly convinced,you too once though I shouldn't tell you that but my head tells me no,and looking at her interview she came across to me as heartless bitch whose seen and done much in her short time on this earth and of late much evil.
A veneer of sincerity like glass.

I wonder what the future will bring for her. She is only 23? she potentially has a long life to live with her regret. I can't imagine wearing her shoes.

[Borchester]

I'm not sure it's even that alone,I suppose like Phil the Greeks will in decades it will be known.

TBH Andrew Neil nearly convinced,you too once though I shouldn't tell you that but my head tells me no,and looking at her interview she came across to me as heartless bitch

No one disputes that. She is an unpleasant dimwit, but that is no reason to banish her