Proportional Representation

[B0ycey]

Swinson was more Tory than the Tories, she openly adlitted she'd love to force austerity on us, but you approve of austerity so ok.

What a fucking strawman!



Who the F@@@ mentioned austerity? If Swinson was the only remain candidate she would gain all the remainer votes. This isn't rocket science.

[Borg Refinery]

Swinson was more Tory than the Tories, she openly adlitted she'd love to force austerity on us, but you approve of austerity so ok.

[B0ycey]

We can all make up fairy tales .

It isn't really fairy tales when it is a fact. Remain has had the largest vote share but has more parties fighting for those votes. I suspect it was Corbyn who unwittingly gave the election to Johnson once he said we would have a confirmentary vote and had he instead shouted he would honour the result we would being calling Swinson the new Macron by now.

[Borg Refinery]

Well the election wasn't under PR which would  change the way people voted ,the way parties targeted seats and where in some cases where they stood candidates .

Just making up maybes  to suit a wish doesn't mean it was ever going to happen  . If PR had been in place in 2015 UKIP would have won around 80 seats ,they got zero .  On a role though who knows what would have happened in future elections , Farage would be the opposition and Corbyn would have been toast let alone the leader of a coalition .  



We can all make up fairy tales .

 :hattip



Also for balance:



If we had STV in 2017, Lab would have won.



If we had STV in 97, Lab would've had a vastly reduced majority.



If we had STV in 2019; the Tories would still have a significant majority.



Sources: C4, bbc fact checks.



^ I think that last point really does prove that England decisively chose Bojo in 2019 (sadly..imho).



The EU and Israel afford minority parties, and more extreme ones much bigger voices as we've seen. I'm ok with that if it's the will of the people.

[Streetwalker]

Landslide? Seats sure. Votes. No way! Ironic for this thread as Proportional Represention would have led to a Corbyn led rainbow coalition.



As for Johnsons 'BoJo Hard Brexit', he didn't ride a wave of "No Deal". He rode the wave of "get Brexit done". The referendum was based on lies and when the NHS doesn't get the 350 million we send to the EU instead or these other awesome goodies the plebs were promised, the day of reckoning will begin.

Well the election wasn't under PR which would  change the way people voted ,the way parties targeted seats and where in some cases where they stood candidates .

Just making up maybes  to suit a wish doesn't mean it was ever going to happen  . If PR had been in place in 2015 UKIP would have won around 80 seats ,they got zero .  On a role though who knows what would have happened in future elections , Farage would be the opposition and Corbyn would have been toast let alone the leader of a coalition .  



We can all make up fairy tales .

[B0ycey]

Bojo was voted in on a landslide.



That is the mandate whether you or I like it or not.

Landslide? Seats sure. Votes. No way! Ironic for this thread as Proportional Represention would have led to a Corbyn led rainbow coalition.



As for Johnsons 'BoJo Hard Brexit', he didn't ride a wave of "No Deal". He rode the wave of "get Brexit done". The referendum was based on lies and when the NHS doesn't get the 350 million we send to the EU instead or these other awesome goodies the plebs were promised, the day of reckoning will begin.

[Borg Refinery]

stop listening to the media narrative bias!

Yeah, sputnik's not great, but it can be interesting occasionally.

Russia didn't need to manipulate the referendum

So despite extensive western interference, there was no sign whatsoever that they did?



Ok, well I've had my fill of TASS for today. And Russia would be very happy with Ukraine splitting, that's pretty obvious. I guess they also need to standardly look after the poor. And the unelected red bureaucrats in the wonderful EU need to butt out(?)?

As for No Deal Brexit, we never voted for no deal but to leave the EU. So on that regard, no deal Brexit doesn't have a mandate.

Bojo was voted in on a landslide.



That is the mandate whether you or I like it or not.

[B0ycey]

Um. That is a completely politicised opinion. You obviously do have a view.



Heh you think that thatreferendum was fair? It makes the EU ref look like heaven in comparison. It is the height of naivete to think Russia did not completely manipulate that ref.



You endorse the Russian ideal of splitting as the 'natural' option when it's anything but. That's rather similar to the no deal Brexiter line pushed by Boris etc.

stop listening to the media narrative bias!



Russia didn't need to manipulate the referendum because it was Russian speaking and culturally Russian. They knew they would win which is why they had it and won convincingly.



As for No Deal Brexit, we never voted for no deal but to leave the EU. So on that regard, no deal Brexit doesn't have a mandate. And Russia doesn't support Ukraine splitting but they would accept that. They just didn't want Crimea, as a strategic port, to fall into Western hands.

[Borg Refinery]

I have no opinion on Russia with Ukraine. I am aware that Crimea had a referendum and voted overwelmingly to annex itself and because a few felt they were Ukrainian and didn't vote that this shouldn't count for anything. They only didn't vote because they would have lost and legitimatised the referendum.



The point is Ukraine is politically divided. The solution for this is for the country to split. Russia would accept that. The West would not.

Um. That is a completely politicised opinion. You obviously do have a view.



Heh you think that thatreferendum was fair? It makes the EU ref look like heaven in comparison. It is the height of naivete to think Russia did not completely manipulate that ref.



You endorse the Russian ideal of splitting as the 'natural' option when it's anything but. That's rather similar to the no deal Brexiter line pushed by Boris etc.

[papasmurf]

Maybe once the Brexit clusterfuck materialises as beinging a pack of lies. I would say a year after that.

Given the current disaster that is Covid-19 with one cock-up after another by government.  I doubt it will be a year.

[B0ycey]

I was referring to riots.

Maybe once the Brexit clusterfuck materialises as beinging a pack of lies. I would say a year after that.

[B0ycey]

Huh.. are you saying Russia are doing good things in Ukraine then?



I accept the west has interfered in Ukraine since 1991 but that doesn't excuse Russian aggression or killing of women & kids does it.

I have no opinion on Russia with Ukraine. I am aware that Crimea had a referendum and voted overwelmingly to annex itself and because a few felt they were Ukrainian and didn't vote that this shouldn't count for anything. They only didn't vote because they would have lost and legitimatised the referendum.



The point is Ukraine is politically divided. The solution for this is for the country to split. Russia would accept that. The West would not.

[papasmurf]

To return to old Labour values? At least a generation away. But perhaps Brexit and Covid19 might move things forward quicker. I don't know.

I was referring to riots.

[B0ycey]

By next February/March that could change.

To return to old Labour values? At least a generation away. But perhaps Brexit and Covid19 might move things forward quicker. I don't know.

[Borg Refinery]

Indeed.



But regards to Ukraine there is a cultural divide whereas the West seem oblivious that half of Ukraine consider themselves Russian which has caused the civil war and still think those who stormed Keiv are the voice. They aren't. They are just one viewpoint.



Although with your point on change, riots were frequent in Thatchers era and that achieved some change especially in regards to poll tax but perhaps not so much for the miners. So I believe that the UK would stand up when the conditions are right as they have done so before. But perhaps we are not there yet.

Huh.. are you saying Russia are doing good things in Ukraine then?



I accept the west has interfered in Ukraine since 1991 but that doesn't excuse Russian aggression or killing of women & kids does it.