Labour now says it would reopen Brexit talks if in power

[Streetwalker]

60% of over 65 voted leave
73% of 18 to 24 voted remain.

Yes ,and in 50 years 100% of them will be over 65 

[cromwell]

How so

Still too busy?
I'm not fretting btw.

[cromwell]

I've no problem understanding in 2016 that England voted to leave, the overall vote at 52/48 is more grey than black & white though. With older people voting leave and younger people remain the overall position could very easily change. There was no landslide decision, but a decision was made and brexit has happened.
It doesn't really matter what Labour does or doesn't do. It's best if the conservatives stay in power and take responsibility for what's coming down the road. Brexit has been all bad so far, but that's being masked by Covid as every country is seeing issues, just not as bad as the UK. As for re-joining, that's a big assumption that the EU would allow the UK back in, why would they ? a totally untrustworthy rogue country, things would dramatically have to change before the EU would consider the UK re-joining. Remember for the UK or any country to join it requires all EU countries to say yes, if one says no then it doesn't happen.

Great that's stuffed Starmer and the lib dims too.

[GerryT]

I think you will find that the EU is well on the way to cutting its own nose off to spite its face.

How so

[T00ts]

60% of over 65 voted leave
73% of 18 to 24 voted remain.

They are the two age groups that have changed over the past 5yrs, all those from 13 to 17 can now vote and plenty of old people have passed away.  But you are right, nobody knows how a vote today would go. Not that another vote will happen in decades.
But what will change is peoples attitudes to the EU, some will continue to see it as the bogey man, while others will want to foster stronger trading relations, time will tell.

I think you will find that the EU is well on the way to cutting its own nose off to spite its face. 

[GerryT]

Don't be too sure of your voting stats. I know many older voters who voted remain because their kids persuaded them but equally I know many of the younger generation who voted out. I don't think it's as clear cut as some might hope.

60% of over 65 voted leave
73% of 18 to 24 voted remain.

They are the two age groups that have changed over the past 5yrs, all those from 13 to 17 can now vote and plenty of old people have passed away.  But you are right, nobody knows how a vote today would go. Not that another vote will happen in decades.
But what will change is peoples attitudes to the EU, some will continue to see it as the bogey man, while others will want to foster stronger trading relations, time will tell.

[Sampanviking]

Dont know if you have seen srb , but starmer has dragged brown out the woodwork to offer another "vow" to the scottish electorate of independence in all but name  .

Of course we are still waiting on browns vow from 2014 being implemented.

I can't make keir starmer out srb. He is either the dumbest can't on this earth or he is got some sort of intricate plan in place that i can't fathom.

I try not to understimate people , but sometime you have to call a spade a feckin spade, so i suspect its the former rather than the latter.

None of us know whats going to happen with brexit , the uk , scot indy etc , but im telling you this. Each and every election , im going out with two things in mind.

1. Voting for parties to enact scot indy.

2.keeping the labour party out at all cost.

There does seem to be a blatant lack of tactical nous and political cunning among these new labour types. They can't see past tony blair , and simply re hash the same things over and over again and again.

I think keir starmer is going to go down as one of the worst leaders labour have ever had , he is fast running out of excuses. Up till now , he has blamed as you know , everything on corbyn and the labour left.

He stabbed corbyn in the back , ran labours disasterous pro eu tactic in the 2019 general election , and further proved what an imbecile he was installing saudi paul as labours candidate in hartlepool with the expected outcome.

Its going to take another general election mauling , with labour scuttling off to lick wounds yet again for the party to realise blairite labour is something best consigend to the dustbin of history.

I see Starmer in the light of his previous occupation, the Public Prosecutor. To him every issue and every policy is simply a case to be won and won by any means using any argument that seems to sway a Jury. There is no strategy in this, no linking up or bigger picture.
Add to that, he is a Barrister and simply handles the cases he is handed. I am sure he has no vision of his own and simply delivers via monotonous nasally drone the result desired by his client.

[Thomas]

I've no problem understanding in 2016 that England voted to leave,

....and wales.

You understand it , but you dont accept it which is your big problem and why you cannot move on.

the overall vote at 52/48 is more grey than black & white though. With older people voting leave and younger people remain the overall position could very easily change. There was no landslide decision, but a decision was made and brexit has happened.

52/48 was a majority decision however you inspect it , or reinterpret it  , it doesnt matter..

Landslide in uk terms is a pretty ambiguous word in the language of the english.

For example , tony blairs so called landslide victory in the 2001 uk general election is a perfect example of what i am saying , where he won 40 % of the vote off the back of a miserly 59 % turnout , one of the lowest in modern uk electoral victories.

80 % or thereabouts of the electorate didnt vote for tony , or decided to not vote at all , but it still didnt stop him and his party taking the reigns of power and triumphantly calling  his victory a landslide.

So im not sure whats difficult to understand about a simple yes no referendum where 50plus 1 of the turnout wins the day.

You knew what remain had to do , and they couldnt do it , so lost.

It doesn't really matter what Labour does or doesn't do.

I think it does gerry  and this is where you are in denial. The tories are shit scared of farage and other brexiters sitting watching their every move. The only chance you have of some eu membership or rule tying excercise by the back door is for labour to get into power in the near future , one half of a two horse race political system.

The longer brexit goes on and armageddon hasnt struck the more people are getting used to being outside the eu , the liklier they are to remain outside .Remember , the difficulty is in changing the status quo , as we found in 2014. Brexiters have tapped into the anti european english feeling , which runs through every generation  , because of the history england has with the europeans especially the french and germans .

You must be hoping scotland doesnt leave the uk , the EU doesnt implode , you need everythig to remain as it is and the uk to change its mind and i say thats a tall order.

It's best if the conservatives stay in power and take responsibility for what's coming down the road.

Ah...the infamous new labour "jam tomorrow" syndrome as we call it in scotland.

in case its escaped your notice gerry , brexit was voted on 5 years ago , and since the vote happened  , all i have heard is labour party types talking about jam tomorrow and hoping for a change in the weather.

No matter how low the tories go , and lets be honest , theresa mays government was one of thw worst tory governments in history , labour still couldnt capitalise ....in fact labour have lost ground in scotland and northren england with only the taffs still sleepwalking into voting for them.

How many more chances do you want?

Labour are despised throughout this island , you just dont realise it yet.

Brexit has been all bad so far,

Has it?

You over egged the pudding and promised armageddon , and it hasnt happened now you are being ridiculed.

Brexit hasnt been anywhere near what you said it would be , and it hasnt been the brexiter utopis , and i think most folk are settling down and accepting it as the norm now. The clock is ticking and you are nearly out of time .

As for re-joining, that's a big assumption that the EU would allow the UK back in, why would they

You are playing semantics yet again gerry.

where have i said about officially rejoining?

i said you have mentioned now a thousand times about the uk being tied to eu rules , or custom union or whatever  , and it aint happening by the back door front door or any feckin door.

Westminster in my opinion cannot ask to rejoin in an official capacity , as i have said many a time it would make them look weak and ridiculous worldwide.

some dirty deal tying the uk to rules and regualtions , some membership in name only  back door deal is your best hope , which looks as far away today as it did 3 years ago.

[T00ts]

I've no problem understanding in 2016 that England voted to leave, the overall vote at 52/48 is more grey than black & white though. With older people voting leave and younger people remain the overall position could very easily change. There was no landslide decision, but a decision was made and brexit has happened.
It doesn't really matter what Labour does or doesn't do. It's best if the conservatives stay in power and take responsibility for what's coming down the road. Brexit has been all bad so far, but that's being masked by Covid as every country is seeing issues, just not as bad as the UK. As for re-joining, that's a big assumption that the EU would allow the UK back in, why would they ? a totally untrustworthy rogue country, things would dramatically have to change before the EU would consider the UK re-joining. Remember for the UK or any country to join it requires all EU countries to say yes, if one says no then it doesn't happen.

Don't be too sure of your voting stats. I know many older voters who voted remain because their kids persuaded them but equally I know many of the younger generation who voted out. I don't think it's as clear cut as some might hope.

[GerryT]

So you have been saying for the last year now.

Is this the new labour tony blair type cunning machiavellian plan.......get into power , and tie the uk back in to the EU in all but name only?

This is simply just regurgitating what labour have tried to sell , and failed to sell , since the brexit result came in 5 years ago.

I would make a wager that the labour party wont be anywhere near the reigns of power at westminster for the next decade at least. We have had covid , brexit , various scandals , johnson elected and ridiculed at every turn , tory austerity , and the labour party havent laid a feckin glove on the tories for the last 11 years.

....but if by some miracle labour do get into power in the near future , i hope they do proceed as you suggest , and tie the uk to the EU by the back door. The english public will never forgive you , and it will finish the twitching corpse of this despicable party forevermore.

The english dont want to be europeans. Its that simple gerry , and something you appear to have great great difficulty accepting.

I've no problem understanding in 2016 that England voted to leave, the overall vote at 52/48 is more grey than black & white though. With older people voting leave and younger people remain the overall position could very easily change. There was no landslide decision, but a decision was made and brexit has happened. 
It doesn't really matter what Labour does or doesn't do. It's best if the conservatives stay in power and take responsibility for what's coming down the road. Brexit has been all bad so far, but that's being masked by Covid as every country is seeing issues, just not as bad as the UK. As for re-joining, that's a big assumption that the EU would allow the UK back in, why would they ? a totally untrustworthy rogue country, things would dramatically have to change before the EU would consider the UK re-joining. Remember for the UK or any country to join it requires all EU countries to say yes, if one says no then it doesn't happen.

[Thomas]

Well yes. I have warned people here about Starmer. He lied to the membership - quite blatantly and calculatedly - to gain his position, but some of those who appear eager to give him a free pass on that because they approve of what he is now doing, ought to beware. He is just as capable of lying to them.

When it comes to a proven liar, his words and promises on anything are worthless. You have to judge him and those around him not on what they say, but what they do and what they have done in the past. And one thing is absolutely clear. The centrist, Blairite faction in charge of the party have always been massively pro-EU. They yearn for a day when we can be part of it again, having quite clearly fought tooth and nail to try to stop us leaving. So whatever he promises in an election, he is quite capable of ignoring all that and doing what he really wanted to do all along once elected. He has done this to one electorate already. Ask yourselves this - could you ever trust such a man not to take us back in to the EU? Whatever he promises beforehand?

Remainers might be tempted to vote for Starmer precisely because of that. But those who believe in Brexit would be fools to trust him. Look at his track record.

Dont know if you have seen srb , but starmer has dragged brown out the woodwork to offer another "vow" to the scottish electorate of independence in all but name  .

Of course we are still waiting on browns vow from 2014 being implemented.

I cant make keir starmer out srb. He is either the dumbest cant on this earth or he is got some sort of intricate plan in place that i cant fathom.

I try not to understimate people , but sometime you have to call a spade a feckin spade, so i suspect its the former rather than the latter.

None of us know whats going to happen with brexit , the uk , scot indy etc , but im telling you this. Each and every election , im going out with two things in mind.

1. Voting for parties to enact scot indy.

2.keeping the labour party out at all cost.

There does seem to be a blatant lack of tactical nous and political cunning among these new labour types. They cant see past tony blair , and simply re hash the same things over and over again and again.

I think keir starmer is going to go down as one of the worst leaders labour have ever had , he is fast running out of excuses. Up till now , he has blamed as you know , everything on corbyn and the labour left.

He stabbed corbyn in the back , ran labours disasterous pro eu tactic in the 2019 general election , and further proved what an imbecile he was installing saudi paul as labours candidate in hartlepool with the expected outcome.

Its going to take another general election mauling , with labour scuttling off to lick wounds yet again for the party to realise blairite labour is something best consigend to the dustbin of history.

[Thomas]

Is it that Labour would look to build on the current agreement to remove barriers to trade. There is no reason why the current Govt couldn't do that but their fairy-tail belief system would most likely prevent them.

So you have been saying for the last year now.

Is this the new labour tony blair type cunning machiavellian plan.......get into power , and tie the uk back in to the EU in all but name only?

This is simply just regurgitating what labour have tried to sell , and failed to sell , since the brexit result came in 5 years ago.

I would make a wager that the labour party wont be anywhere near the reigns of power at westminster for the next decade at least. We have had covid , brexit , various scandals , johnson elected and ridiculed at every turn , tory austerity , and the labour party havent laid a feckin glove on the tories for the last 11 years.

....but if by some miracle labour do get into power in the near future , i hope they do proceed as you suggest , and tie the uk to the EU by the back door. The english public will never forgive you , and it will finish the twitching corpse of this despicable party forevermore.

The english dont want to be europeans. Its that simple gerry , and something you appear to have great great difficulty accepting.

[srb7677]

the British will think good place abroard, decent beer and lots of sunshine, pity it is full of foreigners.

The sort who think that are the sort who jet off to foreign lands only to seek out the English bars and English fish and chips, whilst complaining that the locals don't speak good enough English.

The more discerning traveller of course tends to seek out and try out the local cuisine and the local culture as all part and parcel of the foreign land experience. After all, they can immerse themselves in their own culture the rest of the time when they are home.

[Borchester]

As a remainer I have seen nothing as yet that would even start to make me think Brexit was a good idea.

I guess Brexiters can still keep blaming the EU for all the the UK's self-inflicted wounds.

For Christ's sake Duckie, you were even worried about the flu, so it was no wonder Brexit made you a bit nervous.

Be that as it may be, you are right on this EU lark. The remainers will continue to pass their skinny lattes over glasses of water in homage to the monarch in Brussels while the British will think good place abroard, decent beer and lots of sunshine, pity it is full of foreigners.

[srb7677]

You really have to laugh at labour. I owuld have more respect for them if they came out like daft jo swinson did and told the honest truth , they are going to take the uk back into the EU.

Well yes. I have warned people here about Starmer. He lied to the membership - quite blatantly and calculatedly - to gain his position, but some of those who appear eager to give him a free pass on that because they approve of what he is now doing, ought to beware. He is just as capable of lying to them.

When it comes to a proven liar, his words and promises on anything are worthless. You have to judge him and those around him not on what they say, but what they do and what they have done in the past. And one thing is absolutely clear. The centrist, Blairite faction in charge of the party have always been massively pro-EU. They yearn for a day when we can be part of it again, having quite clearly fought tooth and nail to try to stop us leaving. So whatever he promises in an election, he is quite capable of ignoring all that and doing what he really wanted to do all along once elected. He has done this to one electorate already. Ask yourselves this - could you ever trust such a man not to take us back in to the EU? Whatever he promises beforehand?

Remainers might be tempted to vote for Starmer precisely because of that. But those who believe in Brexit would be fools to trust him. Look at his track record.