Beware the liar Starmer

[patman post]

I guess it's difficult for Corbyn supporters to see their hero being jettisoned by the party they thought they'd taken over. But Keir Starmer's performance yesterday, and the support it got, shows Labour to be on track to becoming a credible alternative. Learning from New Labour's success is a good start.   


As someone who would have been mostly an ardent Thatcher supporter had I been voting at the time, I can see considering the potential Labour party as a useful tactical vote (without the current soul searching) should there be a danger of a LibDem or other unscrupulous or weird party candidate getting in locally...

[srb7677]

Well Steve you cited Burnham as a possible I did reply but anyway he's another Bliarite.the only hope for this country is a true overhaul of our system and constitution.

We also need some new parties for left right and all stations in between.

I broadly agree.

As for Burnham, he was an advocate of all things Blairite back in the day. He has made something of a name for himself more recently for doing one big left leaning thing with busses that was popular, but it is unwise to hang too much on just one thing. He has in previous leadership elections been prepared to talk left to a certain extent, but this drew criticism at the time because it ran counter to his track record as a Blairite cabinet minister. So he was somewhat mistrusted.That was a while back now though and it is conceivable that his beliefs have shifted. All of us can change our positions as time goes by. But I would not bank on that.

Polling has shown that Burnham is much more popular amongst the wider public - or perhaps I should say much less unpopular - than Starmer. How long that would survive him actually being in the position though if he became leader is debateable. Certainly Burnham replacing Starmer as Labour leader would be nowhere near enough on it's own to get me voting Labour, which in any case would mostly depend upon the politics of my local candidate.

One thing is certain. By changing the rules to make it much harder for anyone to get onto a leadership ballot, they have finally made it virtually impossible for a genuine left winger to even make it onto the ballot. So if the Blairites and centrists decide Keir is a vote loser, they are now free to replace him without risking another left winger standing and winning. But it will only be by another centrist stooge who dances to their tune, whether that be Burnham or anybody else.

So when it comes to leadership ballots now, the MPs have a stranglehold on who can stand, denying the members a choice. And the members have been further weakened by reducing their ability to deselect MPs, making the latter almost a power unto themselves without any accountability to their members. And the leadership is also demonstrating a blatant willingness to ignore votes at conference that they don't like. It is back to Blairite times when members were supposed to support whatever they were given uncritically, with no real voice or say or power anymore. No wonder the exodus of members is becoming a flood.

[Borchester]

Well Steve you cited Burnham as a possible I did reply but anyway he's another Bliarite.the only hope for this country is a true overhaul of our system and constitution.

We also need some new parties for left right and all stations in between.

Well the Tories do anyway.

If all the well meaning numpties of the left unite in a common cause, there is an excellent chance that they will rally behind Jeremy Corbyn Mark II and go down into the usual glorious defeat, which will please Boris no end.

As it says in the song, we shall overcome someday. But it does not say when that day will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM39QUiAsoM

[cromwell]

Well Steve you cited Burnham as a possible I did reply but anyway he's another Bliarite.the only hope for this country is a true overhaul of our system and constitution.

We also need some new parties for left right and all stations in between.

[srb7677]

It seems you don't like him very much.

It is because he blatantly lied to his electorate to gain his position. An electorate that included me. I and many others were not taken in by his lies but too many were.

My warning to everyone else is that a man who can so clearly lie to one electorate to get elected can just as readily lie to another. A man who can make false promises that he never intended to keep and which he betrays in power is capable of doing the same in government.

I am certain that he will say whatever he thinks will get him into power, but once in power he is quite capable of revealing his promises to be false. After all, he has done it already. He needs to be judged by the company he keeps and his track record, not by the things he says. Anyone out there who believes in Brexit, trust him at your peril. One thing he and all the other Blairites and centrists have in common is that they are massively pro EU and quite a lot of them want to rejoin. I used to hear it all the time on party forums. They want for the good of business and for the benefit of the affluent middle classes to reopen our borders to a flood of cheap labour for the good of the economy. They think of this as providing opportunities for the working class poor of other countries, whilst providing themselves with cheap plumbers and electricians, and feeling all progressive. Our own indiginous working class they prefer to dismiss as racists and xenophobes for complaining about cheap labour being used to keep their terms and conditions and pay crap.

Beware any politician who has already brazenly demonstrated a willingness to lie to get elected, and ignore his words and try to figure out what he really thinks based upon the company he keeps and his own past record. Because he is more likely to be faithful to what he really thinks than to any lies he told to get elected. He has already proven that.

Mind you, if it really was a case of liar, liar, pants on fire, Boris would have singlehandedly caused a national pants shortage all on his own by now, even without the help of Starmer. Is it any wonder that most people don't trust any of them?

[T00ts]

Keir Starmer has proven already that he is a man prepared to lie to get elected. He told party members that he would be the unity candidate who would unite the party until he got the job, since when he has spent much of his time dividing the party and attacking part of it. He said nothing about rule changes to disempower members and empower and protect MPs. He made ten policy pledges the gist of which was to continue with the more popular Corbyn era policies. Until he got elected when he immediately dropped them. He spoke highly of Jeremy Corbyn until he was elected, since when he has attacked and trashed him.

The evidence is overwhelmingly obvious that he lied to his then electorate, the party members, to get elected.

A man who can lie to the members to become leader is equally capable of lying to the country to win an election. Don't trust him. Judge him not by what he says or doesn't say. Judge him by the company he keeps and what they think. And judge him by his past actions and stances.

Brexiteers in particular beware. This man and most of those around him are ardently pro-EU. With a track record of lying to get elected, can you trust him not to attempt to get us back in, at least in practice if not in name? Even if he says otherwise in an election campaign?

I never trusted him. I could see who was backing him and that fact spoke volumes. I knew he was lying to us. But unfortunately, too many members believed his lies. If politically minded members of a political party can be taken in so easily by obvious lies, there is an obvious danger that the wider public could be.

So this is a warning. Do not trust Starmer by what he says. He has already demonstrated his willingness to blatantly lie to an electorate to get elected. Stop and think. What does this man really think? Who are his strongest backers? What is his past record? Because all of this will be a far more reliable clue to what he stands for than anything he says to get elected.

It seems you don't like him very much. Of course I totally agree with you. Fortunately he has no charm either so I really don't think one time Labour voters which ever side of the centre line they fall will elect him. Any man who can say - do you want to be elected or united - has a real problem. There is a Labour party no longer and UK politics will be the poorer for it.

[srb7677]

Keir Starmer has proven already that he is a man prepared to lie to get elected. He told party members that he would be the unity candidate who would unite the party until he got the job, since when he has spent much of his time dividing the party and attacking part of it. He said nothing about rule changes to disempower members and empower and protect MPs. He made ten policy pledges the gist of which was to continue with the more popular Corbyn era policies. Until he got elected when he immediately dropped them. He spoke highly of Jeremy Corbyn until he was elected, since when he has attacked and trashed him.

The evidence is overwhelmingly obvious that he lied to his then electorate, the party members, to get elected.

A man who can lie to the members to become leader is equally capable of lying to the country to win an election. Don't trust him. Judge him not by what he says or doesn't say. Judge him by the company he keeps and what they think. And judge him by his past actions and stances.

Brexiteers in particular beware. This man and most of those around him are ardently pro-EU. With a track record of lying to get elected, can you trust him not to attempt to get us back in, at least in practice if not in name? Even if he says otherwise in an election campaign?

I never trusted him. I could see who was backing him and that fact spoke volumes. I knew he was lying to us. But unfortunately, too many members believed his lies. If politically minded members of a political party can be taken in so easily by obvious lies, there is an obvious danger that the wider public could be.

So this is a warning. Do not trust Starmer by what he says. He has already demonstrated his willingness to blatantly lie to an electorate to get elected. Stop and think. What does this man really think? Who are his strongest backers? What is his past record? Because all of this will be a far more reliable clue to what he stands for than anything he says to get elected.