Government and councils should ‘stop passing the buck’ on truck stops,

[Thomas]

You have done nothing of the kind, and the lack of dedicated truck stops is not a minor issue.
Parking HGVs in laybys overnight is in many cases illegal anyway, unless the layby is separated from the road next to it. It also leaves the driver open to hi-jacking or attack so the load can be stolen.
HGV drivers have been treated like dirt for far too long. That is a major factor in the shortage in the UK, that and poor pay.
I was getting £140 a week net back in the 1970s. Not many are getting todays equivalent of that.

what would you do then pappy? Raise taxes and spend spend spend taxpayers hard earned cash building and  subsidising loss making motorway facilities for hgv drivers?

[papasmurf]

ok so i have refuted your earlier points
How would you sort this minor issue pappy?

You have done nothing of the kind, and the lack of dedicated truck stops is not a minor issue.
Parking HGVs in laybys overnight is in many cases illegal anyway, unless the layby is separated from the road next to it. It also leaves the driver open to hi-jacking or attack so the load can be stolen.
HGV drivers have been treated like dirt for far too long. That is a major factor in the shortage in the UK, that and poor pay.
I was getting £140 a week net back in the 1970s. Not many are getting todays equivalent of that.

[Thomas]

So what, that does not solve the lack of dedicated facilities for HGV drivers and  does not encourage people to enter the profession. It is at best a sticking plaster to a serious problem.

ok so i have refuted your earlier points and you now agree the technology exists depsite in your limited expericence not knowing someone who uses portable toilets.

We have already refuted the idea that lack of facilities is the main reason drivers arent entereing the industry , when you agreed that France has much better facilites than the uk , but they also have a driver shortage of some 40 000.

Seems to me pappy you are basically barking up the wrong tree as ever , moaning about something you know little about as ever , and once again cant supply any soultions except vague moans about demanding more facilities  , but cant tell us who you want to pay for them.

Same old same old pappy.

How would you sort this minor issue pappy?

[papasmurf]

Doesnt matter who you know who doesnt have them the point is the technology exists

So what, that does not solve the lack of dedicated facilities for HGV drivers and  does not encourage people to enter the profession. It is at best a sticking plaster to a serious problem.

[Thomas]

I know of none that have them and the lack of facilities to empty them is problematic. (I would not want drive very far with a "loaded" porta potti in the cab.)

Doesnt matter who you know who doesnt have them the point is the technology exists and many do.

I take your point about chemical toilet emptying facilities , but as someone who has driven caravans arounds western europe for 15 years , at worst case scenario you can empty the chemical toilet down a public toilet if need be.

The porta potti is specifically desgined so you can close it off ( to stop smells or spillage) so there is no problem driving around with one full .

Instead of trying to throw up constant problems , many which dont exist  except in your head or can be easily overcome , how do you propose fixing the issues you raise?

[papasmurf]

i know a few as well pappy , and they have them ,

I know of none that have them and the lack of facilities to empty them is problematic. (I would not want drive very far with a "loaded" porta potti in the cab.)

[Thomas]

Many? Really?  I don't know any who do, and I know a lot of HGV drivers.

i know a few as well pappy , and they have them , but at the end of the day , if the technology is there , and drivers dont want to use them , then thats their problem.

https://britishtrucking.co.uk/toilet-ideas-for-truck-drivers/

[Thomas]

The problems here seem to be exhorbitant charges for stopping on motorway services,do we really need all those food outlets,fruit machines etc.
Perhaps smaller but more frequent stopovers with secure parking and clean facilities.

The problem is lack of investment,smart motorways for eg,it is accepted they are dangerous but they carry on regardless.

It is madness that hard shoulders have been taken away,that refuges are too far apart and if yo manage to reach one and an hgv is in there you've had it.

I think it was ian duncan smith who agreed that the uk is well known around the world for lacking in investment ,and he blamed the lorry driving industry itself as well for many issues such as being over reliant on cheap imported foreign workers.

I think its a long term problem cromwell , the point is as borkie always points out , everyone complains but no one wants to pay to fix many of these issues which is the nub of the argument.

Imagine the uproar if the tories said ok , lets fix these issues by tolling roads and building infrastructure needed from the proceeds?

The haulage industry would be the first to complain.

Nothing in life is free , and we go back to the same old arugment , do people want a high tax big state government , or small tax little state government ?

I think the French for example are more towards the big state high tax end of the argument , hence why they can invest in stuff like motorway infrastructure.

Whereas in the usa , they seem to have a similar problem to the uk ...

Why old-fashioned highway rest stops are disappearing

For more than half a century, old-fashioned, no-frills highway rest stops have welcomed motorists looking for a break from the road, a bathroom or a picnic table where they can eat lunch.

But in some states, these roadside areas are disappearing.

Cash-strapped transportation agencies are shuttering the old ones to save money, or because they don't attract enough traffic or are in such bad shape that renovating them is too costly. Or, the stops have been overtaken by tourist information centers, service plazas that take in revenue from gasoline and food sales, or commercial strips off interstate exits.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/04/01/highway-rest-stops-disappearing/99868368/

[papasmurf]

Not really pappy.

Many lorry drivers will use thetford portaloos/chemical cassette toilets that you get in caravans.

Many? Really?  I don't know any who do, and I know a lot of HGV drivers.

[Thomas]

There are not toilets and showers in a sleeper cab.

Not really pappy.

Many lorry drivers will use thetford portaloos/chemical cassette toilets that you get in caravans.

[papasmurf]

It is madness that hard shoulders have been taken away,that refuges are too far apart and if yo manage to reach one and an hgv is in there you've had it.

That is an emergent property of the lack of dedicated facilities for HGV drivers.

[papasmurf]

Usually the toilets are disgusting in France, nonetheless.
.

They are in Britain as well, and the lack of decent toilet facilities and lack of toilets is a national scandal in Britain.
http://www.btaloos.co.uk/?page_id=850
23 July 2021

The British Toilet Association has called for improved legislation and more government funding to address the current "appalling" lack of public toilet provision.

Public toilets are in "crisis" and rapidly vanishing, the body said, with many of those that remain displaying totally unacceptable levels of cleanliness and hygiene and the COVID-19 pandemic has only made the situation worse.

[cromwell]

The problems here seem to be exhorbitant charges for stopping on motorway services,do we really need all those food outlets,fruit machines etc.
Perhaps smaller but more frequent stopovers with secure parking and clean facilities.

The problem is lack of investment,smart motorways for eg,it is accepted they are dangerous but they carry on regardless.

It is madness that hard shoulders have been taken away,that refuges are too far apart and if yo manage to reach one and an hgv is in there you've had it.

[papasmurf]

Would it have anything to do with the big lorries having the equivalent of a caravan at the back of the cab? Years ago that was unheard of but now drivers can be more or less self contained.

There are not toilets and showers in a sleeper cab.

[T00ts]

Would it have anything to do with the big lorries having the equivalent of a caravan at the back of the cab? Years ago that was unheard of but now drivers can be more or less self contained.