Yesterday UK had highest number of new covid cases of any country.

[Nick]

There is a very real fear for some that the jab will give them long term illness eg cancer or something as severe.

Hers is the conspiracy theory: Microsoft injecting trackers into us or something like that. 

[Barry]

So, where are the figure showing deaths FROM Covid, cause if I take the average surplus deaths for the last ten years and put them against 2020 deaths it comes out at around 35K Covid deaths.

Most of the FOI requests to Health Authorities asking how many people have died with Covid as the primary cause have come back zero.

[Scott777]

but we will all die of something and our factory made food is doing more to kill us than anything, but I haven't seen anyone lining up to stop us shopping.

Of course, junk food tends to lead towards an earlier demise, but it's very different with an experimental treatment, which has been established can cause death at any age, and we don't know how widespread that will be, because there is no long-term data.  People are generally aware of the risks of too much junk food, but many are blissfully unaware of the risks of jabs, partly because no one knows the risks.

[T00ts]

I've got a friend that has a daughter who is/was a nurse. She won't have the jab, she won't wear a mask as she says it makes her feel claustrophobic.
The hospital has told her she can't go into work due to not having the jab, as I've said she won't wear a mask so she is going to lose her job. She has an 18 month old baby and all this is putting strain on her marriage and they are now up to their eyeballs in debt cause she can't work.
So because she won't have the jab, due to thinking some weird conspiracy theory she is going to lose her job, house and marriage.

There is a very real fear for some that the jab will give them long term illness eg cancer or something as severe. I suppose every person who has the jab and at some future date gets ill will be held as proof that those anti jabbers were right. Who knows perhaps they are, but we will all die of something and our factory made food is doing more to kill us than anything, but I haven't seen anyone lining up to stop us shopping.

[Nick]

A voice of reason and pragmatism at last. The current fashion of everyone demanding to be heard no matter how scatty or simply divisive their opinion, is a disease that the world let alone this country can well do without. It threatens civilisation at it's very core. It is a minority but they cause as much disruption as is possible to those who have their own minds but largely keep their own counsel. I am waiting for my booster  hopefully in the next few weeks. Do I expect a song and dance from those who have decided it isn't right? No. It is my decision and no-one else's business. If it kills me now or later then so be it. I obviously hope it doesn't.

Why do those who feel they have the right, demand agreement or approval from everyone else?

I've got a friend that has a daughter who is/was a nurse. She won't have the jab, she won't wear a mask as she says it makes her feel claustrophobic.
The hospital has told her she can't go into work due to not having the jab, as I've said she won't wear a mask so she is going to lose her job. She has an 18 month old baby and all this is putting strain on her marriage and they are now up to their eyeballs in debt cause she can't work.
So because she won't have the jab, due to thinking some weird conspiracy theory she is going to lose her job, house and marriage.

[Scott777]

Regarding personal choice, it is none the less important to consider the consequences, not only for yourself, but for others.  I know people will say the same about not getting jabbed - how might the virus affect others - but there's a fundamental difference, because not getting the jab means doing nothing, and may be regarded as the absence of a choice (you may remain permanently unable to decide), whereas getting the jab is an active choice.  This means the consequences of getting it should be an important factor.

So what are the possible consequences of getting jabbed?  As we have seen in Israel and Singapore, the most jabbed up countries have achieved the opposite of solving the 'problem'.  They are spiking with new variants.  And that is exactly what Luc Montagnier said would happen, that mass vaccination drives viral mutation.  Also, the jabs are specific to the Alpha variant, which is by all accounts extinct.  Also, shedding of the spike protein is a thing, as stated by Pfizer themselves.

It's all very well making a personal choice, but at the very least, people ought to do their own research, stop taking the media at face value, before deciding.  Anything less is concerning.

[T00ts]

Whatever you say about the covid pandemic or your stance on vaccination,number of deaths,measures to combat it then clearly it has separated opinion much greater than brexit ever did IMO.

People have taken a stand and are not prepared to listen to any counter,I wouldn't mind it's not just here but worldwide,whatever happened to reason and reasonable argument?

Me and mine are off for our booster tomorrow,do I expect you all to have one? no

Do I expect those who do want the vaccine be harangued at the door? no but they are and staff have been threatened and told their car numbers have been taken with the clear implication there will be reprisals.

Whether you do or don't wear a mask have a vaccine or not is personal choice.

We each need to do what we think in our own best interests,if things go awry because of that i.e. vaccine reaction or die of covid after refusing vaccine that's personal choice but we do need to get over this madness because it's spilling over in to other areas.

A voice of reason and pragmatism at last. The current fashion of everyone demanding to be heard no matter how scatty or simply divisive their opinion, is a disease that the world let alone this country can well do without. It threatens civilisation at it's very core. It is a minority but they cause as much disruption as is possible to those who have their own minds but largely keep their own counsel. I am waiting for my booster  hopefully in the next few weeks. Do I expect a song and dance from those who have decided it isn't right? No. It is my decision and no-one else's business. If it kills me now or later then so be it. I obviously hope it doesn't.

Why do those who feel they have the right, demand agreement or approval from everyone else?

[cromwell]

Whatever you say about the covid pandemic or your stance on vaccination,number of deaths,measures to combat it then clearly it has separated opinion much greater than brexit ever did IMO.

People have taken a stand and are not prepared to listen to any counter,I wouldn't mind it's not just here but worldwide,whatever happened to reason and reasonable argument?

Me and mine are off for our booster tomorrow,do I expect you all to have one? no

Do I expect those who do want the vaccine be harangued at the door? no but they are and staff have been threatened and told their car numbers have been taken with the clear implication there will be reprisals.

Whether you do or don't wear a mask have a vaccine or not is personal choice.

We each need to do what we think in our own best interests,if things go awry because of that i.e. vaccine reaction or die of covid after refusing vaccine that's personal choice but we do need to get over this madness because it's spilling over in to other areas.

[Nick]

Now do you understand.

No,you've just filled a page telling us what we already knew.

The fact is that: if I got the news I had terminal cancer and I went out and shot 3 people in a fit of rage based on my diagnosis, would those 3 people have cancer on their death certificates? No would they hell, it would say gun shot wounds, but it was a direct result of my cancer diagnosis.

If I had Covid and showed a negative test 3 weeks later, got blind drunk and fell off a bridge and died it would MENTION Covid on my death certificate, why? It should say trauma due to falling off a bridge and not even mention Covid.

So, where are the figure showing deaths FROM Covid, cause if I take the average surplus deaths for the last ten years and put them against 2020 deaths it comes out at around 35K Covid deaths.

[Scott777]

Anyone got figures for deaths FROM Covid cause I can't find any?

Boris's dog ate them.  All.  And he ain't even got a dog.

[Scott777]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths

It depresses me to go dig in here, but dig hard enough and you will find them

This shows deaths involving covid.

[cromwell]

Do you watch the BBC

Or ITV

Or Sky

Today, there are several measures of deaths reported.


As I was at pains to state here or elsewhere, Dad died in 2005 of prostate cancer, but his death certificate records the cause of death as pneumonia and emphysema as bits of the cancer break off the prostate flow through the blood and embed in various organs, eventually allowing the fluid the lungs sit in to leak through the cancer in the lung walls,  causing infections and drowning you. What his certificate fails to mention is what he actually died of, a massive morphine dose to overcome the intolerable pain the disease caused.


The above was the reality for most death certificates. They list a number of causes a doctor has actually found, or thinks may contribute. And might ignore others that implicate him

Different sets of ONS figures use one or other of those measures. They are in one way or another connected to COVID. I have no problem with those.

In short, and without the above context, either the Chinese Pox invaded your organs overrode the control systems and caused you to die of fatally low blood pressure - the signature effect if the Angiotensin inhibitor it mimics to invade, .....


OR like Captain Tom 100 years of wear and tear needs the most gentle of shoves to put you in a coffin and sadly the impact the disease had on his lungs was that gentle push.


I have no quarrel with mechanisms and stats that report either of those.


That is NOT what the BBC ITV and SKY are doing


At the start of this Wuhan Wipeout, the whole country and all its statisticians went by one figure...


Of the total number of bodies brought to the morgue today, how many are COVID positive.


As the BBC state, categorically, they report the total number of deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive COVID Test.


Now, about FIFTEEN MONTHS ago a man was squashed flat by an artic after getting blind drunk and going for a dance on the unlit part of the M4 by Bridgend.


Part of the reason for his being pissed off his head was his positive COVID Test.


A fortnight later all hell broke loose when his death under an artics wheels was reported as a COVID death because he had died within 60 days of a positive test.


As a result of that discovery BORIS had to admit the official figures were massively bloated by inclusion of people that died of something utterly unconnected to the fact they had recently tested positive. Like being run over by a bus.


The 'ons' figures have since then, been adjusted.


The BBC, ITV and SKY figures I have seen on the screens all have a caption "deaths for ANY reason within 28 days of a positive test".


Including being run over by a bus.


Now do you understand.

Yes avoid walking in front of moving bus.



Sorry!

[johnofgwent]

Anyone got figures for deaths FROM Covid cause I can't find any?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths


It depresses me to go dig in here, but dig hard enough and you will find them

[johnofgwent]

"He was looking at his COVID test results on his phone and got hit by a bus."

That's the bit I cannot accept, this tenuous link to COVID deaths. You either died from it or you didn't, surely it's that simple?

Do you watch the BBC

Or ITV

Or Sky

Today, there are several measures of deaths reported.


As I was at pains to state here or elsewhere, Dad died in 2005 of prostate cancer, but his death certificate records the cause of death as pneumonia and emphysema as bits of the cancer break off the prostate flow through the blood and embed in various organs, eventually allowing the fluid the lungs sit in to leak through the cancer in the lung walls,  causing infections and drowning you. What his certificate fails to mention is what he actually died of, a massive morphine dose to overcome the intolerable pain the disease caused.


The above was the reality for most death certificates. They list a number of causes a doctor has actually found, or thinks may contribute. And might ignore others that implicate him

Different sets of ONS figures use one or other of those measures. They are in one way or another connected to COVID. I have no problem with those.

In short, and without the above context, either the Chinese Pox invaded your organs overrode the control systems and caused you to die of fatally low blood pressure - the signature effect if the Angiotensin inhibitor it mimics to invade, .....


OR like Captain Tom 100 years of wear and tear needs the most gentle of shoves to put you in a coffin and sadly the impact the disease had on his lungs was that gentle push.


I have no quarrel with mechanisms and stats that report either of those.


That is NOT what the BBC ITV and SKY are doing


At the start of this Wuhan Wipeout, the whole country and all its statisticians went by one figure...


Of the total number of bodies brought to the morgue today, how many are COVID positive.


As the BBC state, categorically, they report the total number of deaths for any reason within 28 days of a positive COVID Test.


Now, about FIFTEEN MONTHS ago a man was squashed flat by an artic after getting blind drunk and going for a dance on the unlit part of the M4 by Bridgend.


Part of the reason for his being pissed off his head was his positive COVID Test.


A fortnight later all hell broke loose when his death under an artics wheels was reported as a COVID death because he had died within 60 days of a positive test.


As a result of that discovery BORIS had to admit the official figures were massively bloated by inclusion of people that died of something utterly unconnected to the fact they had recently tested positive. Like being run over by a bus.


The 'ons' figures have since then, been adjusted.


The BBC, ITV and SKY figures I have seen on the screens all have a caption "deaths for ANY reason within 28 days of a positive test".


Including being run over by a bus.


Now do you understand.

[Nick]

Anyone got figures for deaths FROM Covid cause I can't find any?