Yesterday UK had highest number of new covid cases of any country.

[Scott777]

That doesn't weaken my argument. Without testing, you nor anyone can know what degree of immunity anyone has natural or otherwise. If you could devise a method for facilitating that number of tests en masse in order that the distorted theories of natural immunity can be determined in the face of so many with illness and death then fine. As it is scientists have devised something that will give a high degree of protection, albeit below 100%, in record time and we are talking about mass protection not just those few who might have a natural protection. Luckily for people who refuse the jab it is the rest of us who are protecting them as far as current research can allow. No doubt as knowledge improves it will be those of us with a social conscience who will once again play our part.

Ok, so let's test everyone, and let's imagine very few people have antibodies.  Now what do we do?  How will that clarify the 'distorted theories of natural immunity'?

You make this vague statement about the vaccine's high degree of protection.  So, exactly how does it protect someone who is at zero risk from Covid? (which is the majority of people).

Where did you get this 'research' that shows vaccinated people are protecting unvaccinated people?

[Scott777]

You know nothing about Vine and that's not the point?

Clearly it is because they are presenting as fact enforced vaccinations and intimidating based  on a false premise.

There are no strawmen because people are being targeted for simply disagreeing.

The only evidence you have seen is that which reinforces your belief but then discount anything which counters that.

Im not challenging your opinion but am challenging those who seek by intimidation to challenge others views,you appear to think this no problem.

What 'evidence' have I discounted?  A BBC claim?

So you believe someone intimidated Vine?  So that's it?  That makes it an unacceptable cult?  Children often find headmasters intimidating.  They also challenge the views of children.  Are headmasters an unacceptable cult?  And people are being targeted?  What, like with information?  Did some protesters try to provide Vine with information which he felt was intimidating? Or did someone throw a rock at him?  Do explain.

Often, when people talk of forced vaccination, they mean coerced, which is a fact.  So, what's the problem?  Just that they didn't use exactly the right word?  Or are you disputing that people have been coerced?

[Barry]

Luckily for people who refuse the jab it is the rest of us who are protecting them as far as current research can allow. No doubt as knowledge improves it will be those of us with a social conscience who will once again play our part.

That is not entirely right, is it?
If people have had covid and refuse the jab, how is anyone else protecting them, jab, double jab or triple jab?

Not sure what the sentence about "those of us with a social conscience" is trying to say. Who on this forum does not have a social conscience?

[T00ts]

You don't need antibodies to have perfect natural immunity.

That doesn't weaken my argument. Without testing, you nor anyone can know what degree of immunity anyone has natural or otherwise. If you could devise a method for facilitating that number of tests en masse in order that the distorted theories of natural immunity can be determined in the face of so many with illness and death then fine. As it is scientists have devised something that will give a high degree of protection, albeit below 100%, in record time and we are talking about mass protection not just those few who might have a natural protection. Luckily for people who refuse the jab it is the rest of us who are protecting them as far as current research can allow. No doubt as knowledge improves it will be those of us with a social conscience who will once again play our part.

[cromwell]

Can we make a deal?  No more patronising, and stick to the point.

I know nothing about Vine, and that is not the point.  We were talking about 'cultish' people harassing kids or teachers.

Again, it's a strawman to say people are targeted for 'disagreeing'.  I have given evidence of a teacher providing false information, which could lead to damage or death.  This is not an isolated case.  I have seen evidence of pharmacists also providing false information, in order to push vaccines.  As you have just said, presenting falsehoods as fact, to vulnerable people, is not acceptable.  It is false teaching, and medical advice, that is being targeted.

Do I need medical expertise to tell you that the vaccine does not prevent Covid?  Or what medical advice are you talking about?

The vaccine does not prevent Covid.  (Are you disputing that?) 

The vaccines are experimental, and no long term safety data exists.  (Are you disputing that?)

You know nothing about Vine and that's not the point?

Clearly it is because they are presenting as fact enforced vaccinations and intimidating based  on a false premise.

There are no strawmen because people are being targeted for simply disagreeing.

The only evidence you have seen is that which reinforces your belief but then discount anything which counters that.

Im not challenging your opinion but am challenging those who seek by intimidation to challenge others views,you appear to think this no problem.

[Scott777]

I am trying to hold my peace but do not patronise me Scott I have not patronised you.

If you are incapable of answering why Vine was targeted on a falsehood by morons say so or why you think it is acceptable to target people because you don't agree with them .

You might find it ok to deride peoples concerns about intimidation,the bbc is not the only outlet reporting this but you should recall why you disappeared from here for a time simply because people disagreed with you......didn't intimidate nor actively pursue you.

Can we make a deal?  No more patronising, and stick to the point.

I know nothing about Vine, and that is not the point.  We were talking about 'cultish' people harassing kids or teachers.

Again, it's a strawman to say people are targeted for 'disagreeing'.  I have given evidence of a teacher providing false information, which could lead to damage or death.  This is not an isolated case.  I have seen evidence of pharmacists also providing false information, in order to push vaccines.  As you have just said, presenting falsehoods as fact, to vulnerable people, is not acceptable.  It is false teaching, and medical advice, that is being targeted.

Do I need medical expertise to tell you that the vaccine does not prevent Covid?  Or what medical advice are you talking about?

The vaccine does not prevent Covid.  (Are you disputing that?)  

The vaccines are experimental, and no long term safety data exists.  (Are you disputing that?)

[cromwell]

Yeah, thanks for that nugget.  So you mean teachers shouldn't be spreading falsehoods to vulnerable CHILDREN?  Oh, maybe you have another double standard.

Clearly unable to answer coherently,remind us Scott of your scientific and medical expertise.

[cromwell]

It's called a strawman, when you focus on another thing which isn't my argument, and which isn't the point, rather than the false part of what the teacher said.  You have the audacity to call it propaganda, when it is false to claim the vaccine will stop the Delta variant.  (Or provide evidence that it does stop it).  You then go on to quote the propaganda lying scumbag BBC, who describe a case of 'intimidation'.  Oh my goodness, a lot of short people find tall people quite intimidating, whatever are we going to do?  😱  Can we call the BBC to write an article?  Can we call the police to protect short people from feeling a bit uncomfortable?  Oh, they were threatened, were they?  Do describe this threat, using the BBC bile that you found.  Honestly, I think you are seriously brainwashed.

I am trying to hold my peace but do not patronise me Scott I have not patronised you.

If you are incapable of answering why Vine was targeted on a falsehood by morons say so or why you think it is acceptable to target people because you don't agree with them .

You might find it ok to deride peoples concerns about intimidation,the bbc is not the only outlet reporting this but you should recall why you disappeared from here for a time simply because people disagreed with you......didn't intimidate nor actively pursue you.

[Scott777]

There are those doing this by presenting falsehoods as fact and whatever your stance targeting the vulnerable or those of a different opinion is not acceptable.

Yeah, thanks for that nugget.  So you mean teachers shouldn't be spreading falsehoods to vulnerable CHILDREN?  Oh, maybe you have another double standard.

[Scott777]

Did anyone do a blood test to see what antibodies she had? If not there is no way of knowing if she needed the jab or not. I had the same discussion with the nurse before my booster. Without testing everyone they have no idea who might need it and might not.  In the same way that Covid affects individuals differently it may well be that retention of the antibodies may well differ. Circumstances have meant that there has been no time to assess it. For all I know I have had 3 jabs and it is possible none of them took or the first has created lasting immunity. Who is to know?

You don't need antibodies to have perfect natural immunity.

[Scott777]

Here is a video of a teacher quite sensibly saying vaccines work cos they do.

What is your medical training  and expertise,that'll be none and you watch your propaganda on YouTube and have the audacity to pull me about tv.

please explain what right these people have to harass someone like this girl who of her own free will has decided to have the vaccine.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58856068
And to be clear were this my kid and a bunch of tossers did what they did to her and despite not being the violent type might have lost it.

You and they have the right to your views what you don't have is the right to harass and threaten people.

It's called a strawman, when you focus on another thing which isn't my argument, and which isn't the point, rather than the false part of what the teacher said.  You have the audacity to call it propaganda, when it is false to claim the vaccine will stop the Delta variant.  (Or provide evidence that it does stop it).  You then go on to quote the propaganda lying scumbag BBC, who describe a case of 'intimidation'.  Oh my goodness, a lot of short people find tall people quite intimidating, whatever are we going to do?  😱  Can we call the BBC to write an article?  Can we call the police to protect short people from feeling a bit uncomfortable?  Oh, they were threatened, were they?  Do describe this threat, using the BBC bile that you found.  Honestly, I think you are seriously brainwashed.

[cromwell]

Not my opinion.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210830/Does-SARS-CoV-2-natural-infection-immunity-better-protect-against-the-Delta-variant-than-vaccination.aspx

It's a shame for the girl. She obviously has issues with under-eating, so is at greater risk. But as plenty of studies show, natural immunity beats the jab and it does not increase chances of side effects. The protestors were giving good advice. She needed that jab like she needs a brick on the head.

Again in your opinion,I have largely kept my own counsel regarding the pandemic because views have become entrenched by some on both sides so there has been little point in trying to debate any pros or cons.

There are those in the medical profession who would dispute that she does not need the vaccine,everybody has and is entitled to their view and I have never denied you nor anyone else that.

However there have emerged those on some sort of mission to persuade others they are wrong,they don't do it by evidence or at a distance but choose to impose their view on others by threat intimidation or both which is not acceptable and why I have chosen to say my piece.

They not only do so to those of a differing opinion but choose to target their families too or those simply doing their job.

There are those doing this by presenting falsehoods as fact and whatever your stance targeting the vulnerable or those of a different opinion is not acceptable.

Compared to other countries this country has been quite liberal,in Europe and other locations you cannot go anywhere crowded without proof of vaccination.

What I find hard to take is the idea that this has been manufactured by bill gates or pharmacy companies or even govt to control people,it's a pandemic.......not the first and won't be the last.

[T00ts]

Not my opinion.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210830/Does-SARS-CoV-2-natural-infection-immunity-better-protect-against-the-Delta-variant-than-vaccination.aspx

It's a shame for the girl. She obviously has issues with under-eating, so is at greater risk. But as plenty of studies show, natural immunity beats the jab and it does not increase chances of side effects. The protestors were giving good advice. She needed that jab like she needs a brick on the head.

Did anyone do a blood test to see what antibodies she had? If not there is no way of knowing if she needed the jab or not. I had the same discussion with the nurse before my booster. Without testing everyone they have no idea who might need it and might not.  In the same way that Covid affects individuals differently it may well be that retention of the antibodies may well differ. Circumstances have meant that there has been no time to assess it. For all I know I have had 3 jabs and it is possible none of them took or the first has created lasting immunity. Who is to know?

[Barry]

In your opinion.

Not my opinion.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210830/Does-SARS-CoV-2-natural-infection-immunity-better-protect-against-the-Delta-variant-than-vaccination.aspx

It's a shame for the girl. She obviously has issues with under-eating, so is at greater risk. But as plenty of studies show, natural immunity beats the jab and it does not increase chances of side effects. The protestors were giving good advice. She needed that jab like she needs a brick on the head.

[cromwell]

That's an interesting link, Cromwell.
I read this part first and thought, what?


Of course, it is her and her parent's choice. However, she is immune and the vaccine is not necessary.

In your opinion.