Yesterday UK had highest number of new covid cases of any country.

[T00ts]

Because if you say yes, you are, like T00ts, in favour of coercion.

I am in favour of common sense. We have got beyond this claim of 'rights' on this subject. We are trying to act for the common good as a society. Why else would we agree to vaccinate against any disease? It's to try to eradicate it over time. No vaccine is guaranteed 100% why are people so determined to demand 100% or nothing of this in so little time? We live in a crowded society where disease spreads easily, why would we not act together to help everyone? I simply don't get it. See it as coercion if you must - I just think it's people who consider what they see as their right, as more important than society and unreasonable. If we all cared for one another we would have a better world.

[Barry]

It would be useful if you gave me some idea of what you're talking about.

Currently, people who have had 2 jibby jabs can access a domestic covid pass and an international travel pass by using the NHS app on a smart phone.


Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have that booster?
Because if you say yes, you are, like T00ts, in favour of coercion.

As you posted:

As I said I thank you Scott I don't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of being vaccinated everyone is free to make their choices my only proviso being [highlight]once they've made the decision neither they nor the person vaccinating should be harassed or threatened[/highlight].

I'm neither in favour of coercion, nor in favour of vaccine passes, for reasons I have previously given.

[cromwell]

Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have it?

It would be useful if you gave me some idea of what you're talking about.

[T00ts]

You're going to get a shock at how many people who had 1 or 2 jabs will not get the 3rd.  If you took any jabs, you have wasted tax-payer money.  Some people realise the mistake.  There is no 95% protection.  That's misinformation.

Proof?

[Scott777]

Yes. To have had the 2 jabs suggests that they understood the importance of them. It has been proved that the cover of those jabs declines over time. Why waste everyone's time by refusing at this late date? The  country has put a lot of time effort and cash into providing this stuff in an effort to save lives and degrees of illness. Without proof of lifetime cover we can be prepared for regular top-ups until they find something permanent. Like flu they might never find it but while this virus is as vigorous as it is we should do all we can to see the sense of the plans. As we enter winter the need increases so the boosters become more important not only to ourselves but to everyone that we come into contact with. Either that or stay away from people is the choice. 95% protection I understand. I'll take that.

You're going to get a shock at how many people who had 1 or 2 jabs will not get the 3rd.  If you took any jabs, you have wasted tax-payer money.  Some people realise the mistake.  There is no 95% protection.  That's misinformation.

[T00ts]

Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have it?

Yes. To have had the 2 jabs suggests that they understood the importance of them. It has been proved that the cover of those jabs declines over time. Why waste everyone's time by refusing at this late date? The  country has put a lot of time effort and cash into providing this stuff in an effort to save lives and degrees of illness. Without proof of lifetime cover we can be prepared for regular top-ups until they find something permanent. Like flu they might never find it but while this virus is as vigorous as it is we should do all we can to see the sense of the plans. As we enter winter the need increases so the boosters become more important not only to ourselves but to everyone that we come into contact with. Either that or stay away from people is the choice. 95% protection I understand. I'll take that.

[cromwell]

Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have it?

Are you talking for travel?

[Scott777]

Genuinely Scott thank you for acknowledging that,I have always accepted people have different views my argument is with those who threaten violence a noose and harassment.

Putting posters up with false detail is also unacceptable.

Whilst some were polite not all were,however even if he had said what was alleged the correct
course of action is to complain to the regulator etc and not go round to peoples houses that is not acceptable to harass people in their homes and families.

Imagine if you like  this scenario there was a thread recently on here regarding Wayne Couzens the killer cop, and perhaps you or another posted "it was never acceptable for this man to use a warrant card to abduct rape and murder a woman" and someone took that quote and posted this online "it was acceptable for this man to use a warrant card to abduct rape and murder a woman" and put up posters near someone's home and organised a protest with placards saying that.....leaving out the never,can you imagine the consequences and this is what happened to Vine.

As I said I thank you Scott I don't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of being vaccinated everyone is free to make their choices my only proviso being once they've made the decision neither they nor the person vaccinating should be harassed or threatened.

Anti vaxxers are free to demonstrate their view in the accepted manner,some public place as is normal or by publishing their thoughts on YouTube or wherever.

Idealistically, no one should be harassed, and a regulator, or the police or law, should deal with false claims that may cause harm.  In reality, they don't.  I know this as fact.  For example, a pharmacist can provide false information prior to vaccination, (thereby performing an experimental procedure without INFORMED consent), and he will not be investigated by the regulator, nor the police.  Only when someone is damaged or killed by his injections, is there any hope of taking legal action, an then you need evidence.  So who is going to have evidence that false info was given?  That's why people protest.

[Barry]

As I said I thank you Scott I don't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of being vaccinated everyone is free to make their choices my only proviso being once they've made the decision neither they nor the person vaccinating should be harassed or threatened.

Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have it?

[cromwell]

I stand corrected.  You are right, and someone posted some misinformation.  As I said, I didn't know about this incident, and quickly looked it up and found misinformation.  However, that doesn't mean the protesters did anything wrong at his house.  They were actually very polite in the video I saw, and merely gave some papers to someone who answered his door.  Did anyone threaten violence?  Did anyone damage his property?

Now let's look at a few examples of misinformation given by the pro-vaxxers.

Dr Hilary Jones falsely claimed that if 65% of the population have been vaccinated, then millions of people are totally unprotected.  That falsehood was seen by millions of people.

The government claiming "One in three people with Covid have no symptoms".  That statement is a self-contradiction.  Covid is a disease.  A disease is an illness.  All illnesses must have symptoms.

The teacher that I posted the audio.

Claims by a pharmacist vaccinator that the jab is not experimental, and trials are complete.

The false claims by your so-called anti-vax 'cult' pale in comparison with those by media, health professionals, and government.  Misinformation from protesters could in fact be from people who are not genuine protesters.  It is well known that people deliberately try to discredit protesters.  You don't know they are genuinely part of the movement.

Genuinely Scott thank you for acknowledging that,I have always accepted people have different views my argument is with those who threaten violence a noose and harassment.

Putting posters up with false detail is also unacceptable.

Whilst some were polite not all were,however even if he had said what was alleged the correct
course of action is to complain to the regulator etc and not go round to peoples houses that is not acceptable to harass people in their homes and families.

Imagine if you like  this scenario there was a thread recently on here regarding Wayne Couzens the killer cop, and perhaps you or another posted "it was never acceptable for this man to use a warrant card to abduct rape and murder a woman" and someone took that quote and posted this online  "it was acceptable for this man to use a warrant card to abduct rape and murder a woman" and put up posters near someone's home and organised a protest with placards saying that.....leaving out the never,can you imagine the consequences and this is what happened to Vine.

As I said I thank you Scott I don't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of being vaccinated everyone is free to make their choices my only proviso being once they've made the decision neither they nor the person vaccinating should be harassed or threatened.

Anti vaxxers are free to demonstrate their view in the accepted manner,some public place as is normal or by publishing their thoughts on YouTube or wherever.

[Scott777]

He said nothing of the sort he was arguing with someone and saying you cannot do that,your interpretation is a foolish as the morons protesting outside his house.
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1451656455497699332

I stand corrected.  You are right, and someone posted some misinformation.  As I said, I didn't know about this incident, and quickly looked it up and found misinformation.  However, that doesn't mean the protesters did anything wrong at his house.  They were actually very polite in the video I saw, and merely gave some papers to someone who answered his door.  Did anyone threaten violence?  Did anyone damage his property?

Now let's look at a few examples of misinformation given by the pro-vaxxers.

Dr Hilary Jones falsely claimed that if 65% of the population have been vaccinated, then millions of people are totally unprotected.  That falsehood was seen by millions of people.

The government claiming "One in three people with Covid have no symptoms".  That statement is a self-contradiction.  Covid is a disease.  A disease is an illness.  All illnesses must have symptoms.

The teacher that I posted the audio.

Claims by a pharmacist vaccinator that the jab is not experimental, and trials are complete.

The false claims by your so-called anti-vax 'cult' pale in comparison with those by media, health professionals, and government.  Misinformation from protesters could in fact be from people who are not genuine protesters.  It is well known that people deliberately try to discredit protesters.  You don't know they are genuinely part of the movement.

[cromwell]

Vine has advocated for coercion of vaccines.  "'I guess we either allow this or we end up holding people down and jabbing them by force.", referring to allowing footballers to be banned if they refuse the jab.  So he said, either we ban footballers (coercion), or we force them.  It doesn't matter that he didn't directly advocate forcing it. Coercion is illegal under international law, and a crime under the Nuremberg Code.  It was a legitimate target for protest.

He said nothing of the sort he was arguing with someone and saying you cannot do that,your interpretation is a foolish as the morons protesting outside his house.
https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1451656455497699332

[Scott777]

Somebody doctored a video of him advocating forced vaccination,they then went round to his house based on that and then started a protest all based on a lie about something he never said or did.

How would it be if someone doctored one of your posts on here in to some outrageous lie and sent people round to where you live or your parents perhaps nearest and dearest with placards banging on the door harassing them and starting a protest would that be ok?

Vine has advocated for coercion of vaccines.  "'I guess we either allow this or we end up holding people down and jabbing them by force.", referring to allowing footballers to be banned if they refuse the jab.  So he said, either we ban footballers (coercion), or we force them.  It doesn't matter that he didn't directly advocate forcing it. Coercion is illegal under international law, and a crime under the Nuremberg Code.   It was a legitimate target for protest.

[cromwell]

What 'evidence' have I discounted?  A BBC claim?

So you believe someone intimidated Vine?  So that's it?  That makes it an unacceptable cult?  Children often find headmasters intimidating.  They also challenge the views of children.  Are headmasters an unacceptable cult?  And people are being targeted?  What, like with information?  Did some protesters try to provide Vine with information which he felt was intimidating? Or did someone throw a rock at him?  Do explain.

Often, when people talk of forced vaccination, they mean coerced, which is a fact.  So, what's the problem?  Just that they didn't use exactly the right word?  Or are you disputing that people have been coerced?

Somebody doctored a video of him advocating forced vaccination,they then went round to his house based on that and then started a protest all based on a lie about something he never said or did.

How would it be if someone doctored one of your posts on here in to some outrageous lie and sent people round to where you live or your parents perhaps nearest and dearest with placards banging on the door harassing them and starting a protest would that be ok?

[T00ts]

That is not entirely right, is it?
If people have had covid and refuse the jab, how is anyone else protecting them, jab, double jab or triple jab?

Not sure what the sentence about "those of us with a social conscience" is trying to say. Who on this forum does not have a social conscience?

I have no idea that is for each one of us to reason out.