Yesterday UK had highest number of new covid cases of any country.

[Scott777]

I do see your point but I think your reasoning is flawed.

'Does the vaccine prevent the spread of COVID-19?

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.6 days ago'

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

There is so much conjecture being spread about numbers, rates of infection that it is a minefield. For me if we are to win the fight against this disease and those to follow, vaccination should be compulsory except for any contra-indications in a patient. If resistance declines over time then follow up boosters will be necessary to further reduce the spread. It's the way past diseases have been eradicated. I repeat individual rights fade for the common good and if people will not volunteer with that in mind then it becomes necessary to insist. If someone decided to go against advice then they will need to take the consequences of that decision.

You probably ought to read the study, rather than just relying on a magazine.  "This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

[Scott777]

I'm holding nothing back you and everybody else have the choice to take the vaccination or not, if not doing so affects your employment that's your choice not coercion.

Just take that logic and apply it to this: cut off your legs, or I will take away your income.  That's ok, isn't it?  You have a choice, just cut off your legs or don't.

[Scott777]

If you do believe it so you really are a much changed person,such measures will when this pandemic passes will be withdrawn and are not a long term or permanent curtailment of any body's freedoms.

That's a nice fantasy.  Tell me, after downgrading the virus to no longer a high consequence infectious disease, and after the mass vaccination, have we got rid of the Coronavirus Act or put the Public Health Act back to normal?

[Scott777]

I am in favour of common sense. We have got beyond this claim of 'rights' on this subject. We are trying to act for the common good as a society. Why else would we agree to vaccinate against any disease? It's to try to eradicate it over time. No vaccine is guaranteed 100% why are people so determined to demand 100% or nothing of this in so little time? We live in a crowded society where disease spreads easily, why would we not act together to help everyone? I simply don't get it. See it as coercion if you must - I just think it's people who consider what they see as their right, as more important than society and unreasonable. If we all cared for one another we would have a better world.

Evidence of 95% effectiveness, please?  Evidence of jabs protecting the unvaccinated, please?  If you want to help everyone, learn about vitamins, exercise, fresh air, Ivermectin, Zinc, and then tell us about it, instead of trying to justify illegal behaviour.  The Nazis justified camps for Jews because they were a health threat to the 'good' Germans.  How long before your warped understanding of the 'common good' tells you that it's ok to put the unvaccinated into isolation?  And then punishment, perhaps.

[johnofgwent]

I do see your point but I think your reasoning is flawed. 'Does the vaccine prevent the spread of COVID-19?[/font][/size] People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.[/size]6 days ago' https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/ [/font][/size]There is so much conjecture being spread about numbers, rates of infection that it is a minefield. For me if we are to win the fight against this disease and those to follow, vaccination should be compulsory except for any contra-indications in a patient. If resistance declines over time then follow up boosters will be necessary to further reduce the spread. It's the way past diseases have been eradicated. I repeat individual rights fade for the common good and if people will not volunteer with that in mind then it becomes necessary to insist. If someone decided to go against advice then they will need to take the consequences of that decision.

Oh dear toots Click that new scientist article and click the first "reference" in it, and what does one see.... A warning the articles is not peer reviewed and should not be used to guide clinical decision making.. New Scientist us the "Sunday Sport" of my former profession. Well meaning but it's editor is known for allowing the odd tit to make it the the front page

[T00ts]

You are missing my point a bit, T00ts.
People who are jabbed have a greater chance of survival against the virus. It protects them. It does not protect anyone else.
Therefore, why treat people differently who have not had the jab?
It is illogical and discriminatory for no reason.

I do see your point but I think your reasoning is flawed. 

'Does the vaccine prevent the spread of COVID-19?

People who are fully vaccinated against covid-19 are far less likely to infect others, despite the arrival of the delta variant, several studies show. The findings refute the idea, which has become common in some circles, that vaccines no longer do much to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.6 days ago'

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

There is so much conjecture being spread about numbers, rates of infection that it is a minefield. For me if we are to win the fight against this disease and those to follow, vaccination should be compulsory except for any contra-indications in a patient. If resistance declines over time then follow up boosters will be necessary to further reduce the spread. It's the way past diseases have been eradicated. I repeat individual rights fade for the common good and if people will not volunteer with that in mind then it becomes necessary to insist. If someone decided to go against advice then they will need to take the consequences of that decision.

[cromwell]

So far
No, you are. I've moved on.
It might not be coercion in your opinion, but it is in mine and T00ts says call it coercion if you wish, and I do.
Changed from what?
That may or may not be the case. As you will know from recent posts, I do not trust this government at all. You seem to hang on their every word, allegedly following the science.

It's obvious that you feel very strongly about this issue and you seem to be holding back something. I'd say you are at least as strong on this subject as you are on capital punishment. You obviously believe the government and NHS line on vaccines and back it to the hilt.

I do not. I question everything, as I am sure you used to do. But perhaps you are a "much changed person".

Not at all,I don't hang on their words,as I've said repeatedly I've had every vaccination from an early age offered because they protected me,when the covid vaccination was offered I did my research and went for it.

I'm holding nothing back you and everybody else have the choice to take the vaccination or not, if not doing so affects your employment that's your choice not coercion.

[Barry]

So that's Israel and nothing to do with the UK.

So far

Even so I see a public health initiative there,are you seriously comparing something like this to a bunch of half wits with no recognised scientific or medical knowledge styling themselves as the resistance who are using threats and coercion.

No, you are. I've moved on.

This is not coercion should there be sufficient people be against they will be able to make their feelings known how it should be done at elections, and not some arsehole saying we don't care if you're an MP,Judge,councillor we know where you live.

It might not be coercion in your opinion, but it is in mine and T00ts says call it coercion if you wish, and I do.

If you do believe it so you really are a much changed person,

Changed from what?

such measures will when this pandemic passes will be withdrawn and are not a long term or permanent curtailment of any body's freedoms.

That may or may not be the case. As you will know from recent posts, I do not trust this government at all. You seem to hang on their every word, allegedly following the science.

It's obvious that you feel very strongly about this issue and you seem to be holding back something. I'd say you are at least as strong on this subject as you are on capital punishment. You obviously believe the government and NHS line on vaccines and back it to the hilt.

I do not. I question everything, as I am sure you used to do. But perhaps you are a "much changed person".

[Barry]

But it isn't to do with catching the disease. eg one of my children had the measles jab, the other didn't. They both had it at the same time and both were as sick as each other. No jibby jab as you call them is 100% protection. The whole point I thought was that evidence is that those who catch Covid while vaccinated have a better chance of not ending up in hospital in intensive care. What is it that you are demanding from the jab that would make you happier?

You are missing my point a bit, T00ts.
People who are jabbed have a greater chance of survival against the virus. It protects them. It does not protect anyone else.
Therefore, why treat people differently who have not had the jab?
It is illogical and discriminatory for no reason.

[T00ts]

I've had the Hep B vaccination as I was exposed to risk a great deal.
The Covid mRNA jabs are not vaccinations in the true sense, they have an emergency authorisation, and, as such, people should have the right to decide, without coercion, such as moving them away from their normal working area.
As both jibby jabbed and non jibby jabbed can catch and transmit the virus, there is no logic to such discrimination.

But it isn't to do with catching the disease. eg one of my children had the measles jab, the other didn't. They both had it at the same time and both were as sick as each other. No jibby jab as you call them is 100% protection. The whole point I thought was that evidence is that those who catch Covid while vaccinated have a better chance of not ending up in hospital in intensive care. What is it that you are demanding from the jab that would make you happier?

[cromwell]

Israel have already done this, Cromwell.

Israel Redefines What It Means to Be Vaccinated

So that's Israel and nothing to do with the UK.

Even so I see a public health initiative there,are you seriously comparing something like this to a bunch of half wits with no recognised scientific or medical knowledge styling themselves as the resistance who are using threats and coercion.

This is not coercion should there be sufficient people be against they will be able to make their feelings known how it should be done at elections, and not some arsehole saying we don't care if you're an MP,Judge,councillor we know where you live.

If you do believe it so you really are a much changed person,such measures will when this pandemic passes will be withdrawn and are not a long term or permanent curtailment of any body's freedoms.

[Barry]

Has that happened? The only regulations I've seen being pondered over is whether front line NHS and care staff should either get vaccinated or be moved away from contact with patients and others in their care. Personally, I believe that such a requirement is long overdue and — once this pandemic has lessened in its status to that of a background illness — there should be in depth consideration given to what vaccinations should be from henceforth be (1) required or (2) recommended for which activities and professions. Operating Theatre Staff are already required to be immunised against hepatitis B. I would start with the already-common vaccinations...

I've had the Hep B vaccination as I was exposed to risk a great deal.
The Covid mRNA jabs are not vaccinations in the true sense, they have an emergency authorisation, and, as such, people should have the right to decide, without coercion, such as moving them away from their normal working area.
As both jibby jabbed and non jibby jabbed can catch and transmit the virus, there is no logic to such discrimination.

[Barry]

Well prior to you answering I had looked this up but could find nowt,who is threatening the withdrawal and to what?

Ive had all three have no app or domestic or travel passport.

Israel have already done this, Cromwell.

Israel Redefines What It Means to Be Vaccinated

[patman post]

Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have it?

Has that happened? The only regulations I've seen being pondered over is whether front line NHS and care staff should either get vaccinated or be moved away from contact with patients and others in their care. Personally, I believe that such a requirement is long overdue and — once this pandemic has lessened in its status to that of a background illness — there should be in depth consideration given to what vaccinations should be from henceforth be (1) required or (2) recommended for which activities and professions. Operating Theatre Staff are already required to be immunised against hepatitis B. I would start with the already-common vaccinations...

[cromwell]

Currently, people who have had 2 jibby jabs can access a domestic covid pass and an international travel pass by using the NHS app on a smart phone.


Is it OK to threaten people eligible for boosters with withdrawal of their digital passport, if they don't have that booster?
Because if you say yes, you are, like T00ts, in favour of coercion.

As you posted:

I'm neither in favour of coercion, nor in favour of vaccine passes, for reasons I have previously given.

Well prior to you answering I had looked this up but could find nowt,who is threatening the withdrawal and to what?

Ive had all three have no app or domestic or travel passport.