We will not be blackmailed by the EU says polish PM

[Nick]

The TREATY was voted on by other countries who vetoed it. As a result the EU reworded the Constitution as a non constitutional agreement. On that basis Labour decided we did not need a referendum and Brown ratified the treaty on that basis. In short, we were swindled.

Same thing happened with Major when he threatened to dissolve Parliament if he didn't get his own way. And Leavers are given so much grief when we actually went through a democratic process to leave.

[johnofgwent]

Was it the Lisbon Treaty that Brown was shy about signing and did it on the quiet afterwards with no reference to anyone?

The TREATY was voted on by other countries who vetoed it. As a result the EU reworded the Constitution as a non constitutional agreement. On that basis Labour decided we did not need a referendum and Brown ratified the treaty on that basis. In short, we were swindled.

[T00ts]

Absolutely John,this is the various treaties that envelope nation states where our independence was signed away with barely a murmur and why we were told it was not possible to leave the eu and survive.

Was it the Lisbon Treaty that Brown was shy about signing and did it on the quiet afterwards with no reference to anyone?

[cromwell]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-warns-poland-it-will-pay-challenging-common-law-2021-10-19/

It's a constitutional matter. John Major promised subsidiarity, a principle where the nation state's legislature and constitution overruled Brussels. Lisbon reversed that, and nobody complained.

The highest court in Poland has decreed this is against Poland's constitution, and the EU is kicking off about it. So far this is a clash of legislatures about which the ruling party may be making hay but onfar they are within the country's constitutional rights...

Absolutely John,this is the various treaties that envelope nation states where our independence was signed away with barely a murmur and why we were told it was not possible to leave the eu and survive.

[johnofgwent]

I think thats a fair post steve , and barry has said similar.

The uk wasnt expected to brexit by the political elite and many more , even farage didnt think they had won the night of the ref.

I think from what little i see and know of poland , it seems to be a clash of the economic advantages of being in the EU for them , and their catholic socially conservative values that clash with the  western liberal society that is espoused by the EU.

So i think its a balance between the two , and at the moment , the economic advantages of them being in the EU seems to be winning.

...but as brexit has shown , never underestimate people and thier feelings.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-warns-poland-it-will-pay-challenging-common-law-2021-10-19/

It's a constitutional matter. John Major promised subsidiarity, a principle where the nation state's legislature and constitution overruled Brussels. Lisbon reversed that, and nobody complained.

The highest court in Poland has decreed this is against Poland's constitution, and the EU is kicking off about it. So far this is a clash of legislatures about which the ruling party may be making hay but onfar they are within the country's constitutional rights...

[Streetwalker]

For me its a good sign that the nations of Europe are rejecting the supremacy of EU law . Germany have been doing it for decades . Hungary the Czechs and Poland have in recent years been asking questions of where the EU were taking them and rightly so . 



The Eu's claim for supremacy of law is upheld  in the decisions of its own courts . Reign in the fruitcakes that inhabit Brussels and the Eu may have a future , the may have to rebrand it as the EEC , but hey ,you never know , we might even join  .

[T00ts]

As a Nation we have been in the firing line of the EU's hot air blasts in the past but is this what is happening to Poland as the EU threatens 1 million Euros a day fine? Or has the EU found the bottle to actually carry the threat through? Perhaps the supposed threat to the project has them against the wall especially as it comes so soon after our vote. Good luck Poland!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10136223/EU-pushed-Poland-POLEXIT-Nation-ordered-pay-1million-day-judicial-row.html

[Thomas]

I heard on the news that 80 percent of Poles want to remain in the EU. This makes it far less likely that Poland will leave than for us to have done so.

I lack the time to have looked into it in detail so feel free to correct me, but I believe that it has always been a condition of EU membership that member states remain free and democratic. Some of the governments of eastern Europe have been straying onto dodgy territory in recent years as far as this is concerned. But according to what was being said on BBC Newsnight, the issue was that the ruling party in Poland was attempting to undermine a free judiciary to exert political control over it. This is against the rules of membership that Poland signed up to. And Polish sovereignty means jack shit if it is being asserted to deny Poles their freedom.

I think thats a fair post steve , and barry has said similar.

The uk wasnt expected to brexit by the political elite and many more , even farage didnt think they had won the night of the ref.

I think from what little i see and know of poland , it seems to be a clash of the economic advantages of being in the EU for them , and their catholic socially conservative values that clash with the  western liberal society that is espoused by the EU.

So i think its a balance between the two , and at the moment , the economic advantages of them being in the EU seems to be winning.

...but as brexit has shown , never underestimate people and thier feelings.

[srb7677]

I heard on the news that 80 percent of Poles want to remain in the EU. This makes it far less likely that Poland will leave than for us to have done so.

I lack the time to have looked into it in detail so feel free to correct me, but I believe that it has always been a condition of EU membership that member states remain free and democratic. Some of the governments of eastern Europe have been straying onto dodgy territory in recent years as far as this is concerned. But according to what was being said on BBC Newsnight, the issue was that the ruling party in Poland was attempting to undermine a free judiciary to exert political control over it. This is against the rules of membership that Poland signed up to. And Polish sovereignty means jack shit if it is being asserted to deny Poles their freedom. 

[HDQQ]

Remember when when 'Grexit' was the buzzword among Euroskeptics?  How Greece was going to get pushed out of the EU because of its financial crisis and this could lead to the collapse of the EU. Greece is still in the EU and the EU hasn't collapsed.

And at the time when the Grexit hoo-haa was going on, not even the most bullish Euroskeptics were predicting that Britain would be out of the EU within a few years (unless it collapsed from within, that is). In those days 'Brexit' was something that happened when your cat couldn't keep its morning meal down (probably because he/she gulped in too much air in their eagerness to consume).

So from this the conclusion re. Poland is that nobody can really predict what will happen. All I can say is I won't be surprised if the problem is resolved and Poland stays in the EU/

[Thomas]

Will they leave the EU?
This says no:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/

15 billion European beer vouchers.

You say that barry , but you never know. Brexit has already shown its not just about the economic argument , much to the utter dismay of the elite around europe if not the world.

[Borchester]

Great stuff Borky a right wet blanket,nowts going to happen.

Doesn't mean we can't hope Ollie. Or make something up

[cromwell]

I have done a sum, which is probably wrong, but which suggests that although Poland gets the largest share of the EU's budget, in net terms it only works out at 2% of the country's GDP.

The Poles won't leave the EU over tuppence in the pound and by the time Brussels decides to do anything well, it won't. All good fun but I can't see any sign of Polixt

Great stuff Borky a right wet blanket,nowts going to happen.  

[Borchester]

Will they leave the EU?
This says no:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/

15 billion European beer vouchers.

I have done a sum, which is probably wrong, but which suggests that although Poland gets the largest share of the EU's budget, in net terms it only works out at 2% of the country's GDP.

The Poles won't leave the EU over tuppence in the pound and by the time Brussels decides to do anything well, it won't. All good fun but I can't see any sign of Polixt

[Barry]

Will they leave the EU?
This says no:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1135294/poland-s-contributions-to-and-receipts-from-the-eu-budget/

15 billion European beer vouchers.