Bob the billionaire.

Started by Nalaar, October 21, 2021, 11:09:36 PM

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cromwell

Quote from: Nalaar on October 25, 2021, 01:00:49 PM
Morality is baked into the original question - Specifically should a moral objection to the scenario in the OP be enforced with law.
I've had all this before with someone else,if a society does not have morals and laws then it isn't a society but the law of the jungle and not worth having.
Energy....secure and affordable,not that hard is it?

Nalaar

Quote from: T00ts on October 25, 2021, 10:39:35 AM
At last  - morality rears its head!

Morality is baked into the original question - Specifically should a moral objection to the scenario in the OP be enforced with law.
Don't believe everything you think.

T00ts

Quote from: Nalaar on October 25, 2021, 12:57:33 PM
The hypothetical assumes bob has access to private surgeons willing to carry out the surgery.

in any case my interest is in whether or not the individuals on this form think it should be legal or illegal, not about how hypothetical could fail if a hypothetical doctor refused etc.
It is a question that cannot be separated from the moral dilemma, hypothetical or not. 

Nalaar

Quote from: cromwell on October 25, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
So the psychologist says that? and the surgeon says that's an unnecessary procedure and I'm not doing it and the law backs him up.
The hypothetical assumes bob has access to private surgeons willing to carry out the surgery. 

in any case my interest is in whether or not the individuals on this form think it should be legal or illegal, not about how hypothetical could fail if a hypothetical doctor refused etc. 
Don't believe everything you think.

T00ts

Quote from: Nick on October 25, 2021, 11:54:46 AM
It's necessary if they want to gain a 100 grand.
That's hardly the point.

Nick

Quote from: cromwell on October 25, 2021, 10:19:02 AMthat's an unnecessary procedure
It's necessary if they want to gain a 100 grand.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

T00ts

Quote from: cromwell on October 25, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
So the psychologist says that? and the surgeon says that's an unnecessary procedure and I'm not doing it and the law backs him up.
At last  - morality rears its head!

cromwell

Quote from: Nalaar on October 25, 2021, 01:11:47 AM
Exactly.
'The boxing committee say this person is sound of mind to box, therefore it's okay'
'The psychologists say this person is sound of mind for sterilisation, therefore it's okay'
So the psychologist says that? and the surgeon says that's an unnecessary procedure and I'm not doing it and the law backs him up.
Energy....secure and affordable,not that hard is it?

T00ts

Where does morality figure in this mess of an argument?

Nalaar

Quote from: johnofgwent on October 24, 2021, 10:43:03 AM
Ok so your take is we have a group of "experts" or more likely a committee taking evidence from "experts" to whom we delegate the social and legal responsibility to declare a person fit to undertake such practices. I don't see that as materially affecting the morality of allowing it or not. If anything I see them as an extension of the rider in the OP that those taking the offer need to be certified of sound mind....
Exactly.
'The boxing committee say this person is sound of mind to box, therefore it's okay'
'The psychologists say this person is sound of mind for sterilisation, therefore it's okay'
Don't believe everything you think.

Nalaar

Quote from: Nick on October 24, 2021, 09:30:11 AM
I'm not deferring anything, your OP starts with the word OFFER. It all comes down to free will, just cause an option is available you  don't have to take it.
...and they OP ends by asking if you think it should be legal or not.
Not some committee members, or board, or a society, but individual you.
Don't believe everything you think.

Nalaar

Quote from: T00ts on October 24, 2021, 09:01:13 AM
Am I reading you right? Are you of the opinion that each individual should have complete autonomy? Now as one who understands the concept of free will within religious bounds it might seem strange that I question your post. Since we all live within a social scheme there comes a point where certain limits have to be maintained for the general good. Rules are devised by society which has chosen laws and governments and as such we have certain standards that most accept. Having said that of course we all can disobey/ignore them and accept judgement by society if not the law. If boxing etc is legal then  for two people to punch the living daylights out of each other is deemed socially acceptable. Personally I loathe it but far be it for me to dictate to others within the bounds of that generally accepted law.
Yes a person should have autonomy over their body.
Don't believe everything you think.

Nalaar

Quote from: T00ts on October 24, 2021, 09:06:48 AM
To go back to your OP - would it currently be illegal? It is such an outlandish notion that I wonder if it is even covered by a current law but since it amounts to ethnic cleansing then perhaps it is covered at a world level.  Would Bob go right through the male population or just stop at the over 18s? Bob might have trouble covering his debt. Dancing Poor chap.
I'm unsure if it would currently be considered illegal, my assumption would be no. Given the people being sterilised are volunteering themselves.
Don't believe everything you think.

johnofgwent

It seems to me that within ten minutes if Bob making that offer, Lee Jasper's pals at Hope Not Hate and a couple of new millionaires at BLM would be urging the crowdfunding a similar scheme exclusively for white people, and probably going round enforcing it, and then finding a way for the courts to seize the money handed out to the newly castrated.
<t>In matters of taxation, Lord Clyde\'s summing up in the 1929 case Inland Revenue v Ayrshire Pullman Services is worth a glance.</t>

johnofgwent

Quote from: Nick on October 23, 2021, 06:04:14 PMNo. They are assessed by the Boxing Board of Control and given a license based on their evaluation.
Ok so your take is we have a group of "experts" or more likely a committee taking evidence from "experts" to whom we delegate the social and legal responsibility to declare a person fit to undertake such practices. I don't see that as materially affecting the morality of allowing it or not. If anything I see them as an extension of the rider in the OP that those taking the offer need to be certified of sound mind....
<t>In matters of taxation, Lord Clyde\'s summing up in the 1929 case Inland Revenue v Ayrshire Pullman Services is worth a glance.</t>