Trouble in Whitehall last night

[cromwell]

we can go over history time and again all you want churchill , its a particular interest of mine , but the empire was forged and run from london , not edinburgh.



All that aside , we are yet again witnessing here and now the wonderfull cuddly aspect of so called london rule and "british democracy" , where the conservatives , a party that has never won an election in its history in my country , and you need to go back nearly three quarters of a century when its sister party  , the old scottish conservative and unionist party last won an  election , has stood yet again in an election in scotland and taken a severe beating.



The tories have lost part of their 2017 vote share in scotland this time around , and the snp took  7 of their mere thirteen seats , yet from their base in england , they have the audacity to try tell us what we can and cant do  as though they are in a position of power over scotland.



I think we are headed for confrontation unfortunately myself , with the first port of call possibly being the scottish courts .

Well as you know Thomas I still believe in the Union,however you can't say I want my vote respected (as per Brexit referendum) and deny others the same,the issue has changed since the last indyref and this election so far as the SNP victory and us leaving changes it all so a second go is not out of order.



If this general election has any lesson IMO its not that the tories won it overwhelmingly but offered to respect that vote and those who voted leave (and some remain) saw they were ignored,ridiculed and taken as fools and democracy was being put aside so that seats never labour for generations or in cases never at all voted tory,and the party that promised to revoke article 50 as its platform was given the bums rush.



The lesson then is ignore a vote at your peril,the UK is not Spain and Scotland not Catalonia.

[Churchill]

I agree it was financed in London, yes you may well be in for a legal battle if enough people do vote for independence as and when a second referendum takes place

[Thomas]

Whats the you bit soldiers from the UK Scotland included forged the Empire and occupied other nations , Scots becuase of their better education owned and ran many a planation all part and parcel of the British Empire not English Empire,



Fast forward to today those that wanted it now have their independence, those who chose to remain in the Commonwealth of Nations are all self governing.

we can go over history time and again all you want churchill , its a particular interest of mine , but the empire was forged and run from london , not edinburgh.



All that aside , we are yet again witnessing here and now the wonderfull cuddly aspect of so called london rule and "british democracy" , where the conservatives , a party that has never won an election in its history in my country , and you need to go back nearly three quarters of a century when its sister party  , the old scottish conservative and unionist party last won an  election , has stood yet again in an election in scotland and taken a severe beating.



The tories have lost part of their 2017 vote share in scotland this time around , and the snp took  7 of their mere thirteen seats , yet from their base in england , they have the audacity to try tell us what we can and cant do  as though they are in a position of power over scotland.



I think we are headed for confrontation unfortunately myself , with the first port of call possibly being the scottish courts .

[Churchill]

you said that to 62 countries around the world , and the majority said feck you and went independent.



I think we all want a smooth transition to independence , but if not , then what?



Are england going to send in the tanks and planes and troops at ground level to keep scotland in the union if the people vote out?

Whats the you bit soldiers from the UK Scotland included forged the Empire and occupied other nations , Scots becuase of their better education owned and ran many a planation all part and parcel of the British Empire not English Empire,



Fast forward to today those that wanted it now have their independence, those who chose to remain in the Commonwealth of Nations are all self governing.

[T00ts]

you see thats another area we disagree , and constitutional issues will effect those so called youngsters far longer than it will effect you or i and why i believe they should have a say.



I know 16 and 17 year olds who could put some of the older folk on here to shame with their knowledge on politics and many facts of life , just as the reverse is true.









:: Thats called english stereotype toots. Oban statistically has less frost than colchester in south east england and the english are all morris dancers of course. :hattip









no need to thank me toots  its good to talk and share opinions , there are a few on this forum who might want to try it instead of screaming delusion at themselves in a darkened room.

Touche   :roll:  :dncg:

[Thomas]

 Although I wouldn't trust a country's future to such youngsters. They really don't have it together enough  

you see thats another area we disagree , and constitutional issues will effect those so called youngsters far longer than it will effect you or i and why i believe they should have a say.



I know 16 and 17 year olds who could put some of the older folk on here to shame with their knowledge on politics and many facts of life , just as the reverse is true.

and it snows a lot in Scotland!

 :: Thats called english stereotype toots. Oban statistically has less frost than colchester in south east england and the english are all morris dancers of course. :hattip

Thanks for being patient with my questions.

no need to thank me toots  its good to talk and share opinions , there are a few on this forum who might want to try it instead of screaming delusion at themselves in a darkened room.

[T00ts]

Toots , i had streetwalker on here today or yesterday telling me not everyone who voted snp wants indy ,with the insinuation that a general election vote share isnt comparable to a vote to leave the union , now you are arguing something different. by the same token as well not everyone who voted for the tories or labour / liberal wants the union.



Do you remember auld jaydee on our old forum  , the scottish tory who supported independence before he was banned?



polls are showing independence now around fifty fifty and rising  , we will have 16 and 17 year olds voting in any future referendum , who didnt get a vote in the GE because your country doesnt want them to , and european citizens who voted no last time will now vote yes .



if your country is so confident scotland will vote no , why is it doing everything in its power to stop scotland having a say on remaining in a brexit uk?



put it to the test , and if you win you put it to bed as scotland will have chosen your union over the eu. :hattip

I'm not arguing anything I simply have no opinion on whether Scot should go solo or not, but I was just interested. So if you have 'proof' of the general feeling then I guess that's fine. Although I wouldn't trust a country's future to such youngsters. They really don't have it together enough and it snows a lot in Scotland!  ::



Thanks for being patient with my questions.

[Thomas]

Doesn't matter. Thomas has already got his Tam o shanter on and his claymore polished and sharpened  ::

 ::

[Thomas]

Humour me a minute. Do you really think that there is now a majority vote for independence? I only ask because I thought I had seen that the SNP who I understand are fixed on independence didn't get a majority of votes - (45% was it?) - I just wondered if the SNP was confident that their GE result would easily translate.

Toots , i had streetwalker on here today or yesterday telling me not everyone who voted snp wants indy ,with the insinuation that a general election vote share isnt comparable to a vote to leave the union , now you are arguing something different. by the same token as well not everyone who voted for the tories or labour / liberal wants the union.



Do you remember auld jaydee on our old forum  , the scottish tory who supported independence before he was banned?



polls are showing independence now around fifty fifty and rising  , we will have 16 and 17 year olds voting in any future referendum , who didnt get a vote in the GE because your country doesnt want them to , and european citizens who voted no last time will now vote yes .



if your country is so confident scotland will vote no , why is it doing everything in its power to stop scotland having a say on remaining in a brexit uk?



put it to the test , and if you win you put it to bed as scotland will have chosen your union over the eu. :hattip

[Thomas]

You have no choice

you said that to 62 countries around the world , and the majority said feck you and went independent.



I think we all want a smooth transition to independence , but if not , then what?



Are england going to send in the tanks and planes and troops at ground level to keep scotland in the union if the people vote out?

[DeppityDawg]

What if coming out of the EU was a massive success. Is there not part of you that persuades you to wait a little while to see? Sturgeon has already put another ref on the table but surely there must be an argument to see where Brexit leads.

Doesn't matter. Thomas has already got his Tam o shanter on and his claymore polished and sharpened  ::

[Churchill]

By that I mean the elected Government of the day will carry out the negotiations acting on behalf of us all, if we like it or not

[T00ts]

You have no choice

 :?:  :?:  :?:

[Churchill]

You have no choice

[T00ts]

the point isnt wether brexit is a success or not. The point is yet again as we have said most of my life , this union operates constantly against scotlands wishes and interests , and brexit is merely the latest example of that.



We voted against brexit , we voted against conservatism and dont agree with englands vision , yet because we are part of the uk , we get what englands wants wether we like it or not.



That is the point , how the union between scotland and england isnt in scotlands short medium or long terms interests. That is what i have argued all my life.



Whatever small pros this union may or may nor have bequeathed on scotland over three centuries has been time and again far outweighed by the cons .



You put your brexit argument to us fair and square in 2016 and we rejected it by a landslide , 62 %.



The point is we dont have to wait and see about anything. Scotland to use an anaolgy is like the wife who has been battered by her husband and treated like sh*t for three centuries , and its always the same argument put to us time and agin , just give it one more go hen , itll be jam tomorrow i promise.



I say time to end this union  , and the severe cost it burdens us with.

Humour me a minute. Do you really think that there is now a majority vote for independence? I only ask because I thought I had seen that the SNP who I understand are fixed on independence didn't get a majority of votes - (45% was it?) - I just wondered if the SNP was confident that their GE result would easily translate.