Trouble in Whitehall last night

[Thomas]

What if coming out of the EU was a massive success. Is there not part of you that persuades you to wait a little while to see? Sturgeon has already put another ref on the table but surely there must be an argument to see where Brexit leads.

the point isnt wether brexit is a success or not. The point is yet again as we have said most of my life , this union operates constantly against scotlands wishes and interests , and brexit is merely the latest example of that.



We voted against brexit , we voted against conservatism and dont agree with englands vision , yet because we are part of the uk , we get what englands wants wether we like it or not.



That is the point , how the union between scotland and england isnt in scotlands short medium or long terms interests. That is what i have argued all my life.



Whatever small pros this union may or may nor have bequeathed on scotland over three centuries has been time and again far outweighed by the cons .



You put your brexit argument to us fair and square in 2016 and we rejected it by a landslide , 62 %.



The point is we dont have to wait and see about anything. Scotland to use an anaolgy is like the wife who has been battered by her husband and treated like shit for three centuries , and its always the same argument put to us time and agin , just give it one more go hen , itll be jam tomorrow i promise.



I say time to end this union  , and the severe cost it burdens us with.

[papasmurf]

I really trust your judgment aziff  :roll:

I trust the people who are going to be at the sharp end of dealing with the problems. ( Which is why I still have the space cleared in my front garden  for the free fishing boat to use as a garden ornament.)

[Churchill]

I really trust your judgment aziff  :roll:

[papasmurf]

Wait and see, you are too full of hate and envy to see straight let alone think straight

I don't need to "wait and see," it is only the level of the disaster that is the unknown. Any sensible deal cannot be done in a year so that means Boris will crash us out of Europe in 12 months time.

[Churchill]

Wait and see, you are too full of hate and envy to see straight let alone think straight

[papasmurf]

Oh papasmurf - just go with the discussion. I know that for you it will be an abject failure even if all around you are cheering us on. Don't take it to heart.

There is no form of Brexit that is going to make the majority of the population better off. There are always people a few people who will profit from disaster.

[T00ts]

Who for?

Oh papasmurf - just go with the discussion. I know that for you it will be an abject failure even if all around you are cheering us on. Don't take it to heart.

[papasmurf]

What if coming out of the EU was a massive success.

Who for?

[T00ts]

Doesnt matter , the point is a union of nations wether european or british can only exist and move forward with mutual consent.



doesnt matter what london says or london wants , you mention history regarding how this union came about , and what history shows is time and again london makes the same mistake over and over by trying to railroad its wishes through in other countries against the majority wish and the same result time and again is independence and the fracturing of the union and empire. Thats how essentially you lost 62 countries around the world , and ireland in these islands.



Democracy is a two way street where we all have to respect the rules of the game and each others point of view , not make up reasons why one side should get its way over the rest.



I respect the wishes of the good people of england and wlaes to leave the eu , and all i ask is you respect ours , and if the union is the collateral damage in the process , i think we are both agreed so be it.

What if coming out of the EU was a massive success. Is there not part of you that persuades you to wait a little while to see? Sturgeon has already put another ref on the table but surely there must be an argument to see where Brexit leads.

[Churchill]

I agree Democracy is a two way street , some do not understand that

[Thomas]

Unfortunate as its for you and myself four nations are still joined at the hip when it comes to some legislation even with devolution IMO it should have been a complete break if the majority living in each country wanted independence for each other.



Perhaps it would have been a good thing for all concerned perhaps not, we won't know until it happens you and I were not on this earth when the Union came about

Doesnt matter , the point is a union of nations wether european or british can only exist and move forward with mutual consent.



doesnt matter what london says or london wants , you mention history regarding how this union came about , and what history shows is time and again london makes the same mistake over and over by trying to railroad its wishes through in other countries against the majority wish and the same result time and again is independence and the fracturing of the union and empire. Thats how essentially you lost 62 countries around the world , and ireland in these islands.



Democracy is a two way street where we all have to respect the rules of the game and each others point of view , not make up reasons why one side should get its way over the rest.



I respect the wishes of the good people of england and wlaes to leave the eu , and all i ask is you respect ours , and if the union is the collateral damage in the process , i think we are both agreed so be it.

[papasmurf]

Unfortunate as its for you and myself four nations are still joined at the hip

I suspect not for much longer.

[Churchill]

Unfortunate as its for you and myself four nations are still joined at the hip when it comes to some legislation even with devolution IMO it should have been a complete break if the majority living in each country wanted independence for each other.



Perhaps it would have been a good thing for all concerned perhaps not, we won't know until it happens you and I were not on this earth when the Union came about

[Thomas]

.



However for any democracy to exist intact as we all know there are four nations in the Union at this moment at this time the wish of the majority of all living in the four nations has to prevail no matter how much it may offend the losing minority for the common good of all.

dont agree in the slightest .



Two things.



First of all your anaolgy only works in a country , not a union of countries where we are bound together by mutual consent.



Brexit isnt the tory government in your country tinkering with the jocks tax codes , its major constitutional change.For brexit to work you needed consent from all four uk nations to democratically go ahead , you only got consent from two , hence the constitutional crises.



Trying to argue one country in the british union gets to  have all the say no matter what the others want because of its bigger electorate while arguing the opposite against the european union that you didnt want 450 million europeans and big electorates in individual countries like 80 million germans telling 55 million english what to do is nonsesne and laughable.



Second point , you told us in 2014 to stay in the eu , we had to vote to stay in your uk , then reneged on it.



No way are we accepting these fallacies in any way shape or form.

[papasmurf]

Trouble in Whitehall



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7790371/Bitter-Remainers-waving-EU-flags-gather-outside-Downing-Street-protest-Boris-Johnson-win.html">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... n-win.html">https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7790371/Bitter-Remainers-waving-EU-flags-gather-outside-Downing-Street-protest-Boris-Johnson-win.html

Is the Daily Mail your only source of information?