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[srb7677]

Another point Tommy, is that today's Labour party doesn't have much left except hate.

But most of the ones it hates are it's former supporters and many of it's own members.

How it thinks this will help it into government is anyone's guess.

[Thomas]

Another point Tommy, is that today's Labour party doesn't have much left except hate.

pretty much borkie . I keep telling pappy and others the same thing , tory bad arguments isnt going to win elections in 2021.

If labour cant offer the people what they want ( as johnson did clearly in 2019 regarding brexit) they arent getting elected.

Labour cant offer scotland what it wants , it cant offer england what it wants , it cant offer srb steve what he wants on the english elft  , so outside the leafy suburbs of southern englands liberal la la land , who is going to vote for them?

I think starmer might well take similar seats to millibands labour did in 2015 for the next election  , possibly a wee bit less .

Its not that the tories are loved , clearly you admit this , its just the majority see them as the best of a bad bunch especially in your country.

[Thomas]

I reckon we should have a whip round and get a forum member dressed in Ermine .  I'll chuck in a fiver to get the ball rolling

To be honest mate , how many times over the years have we discussed the HOL and reform if it?

As you know , my party doesnt sit in the lords , and politically i want all scottish lords out of it.

That aside , i have heard some great arguments regarding reform of the lords over the years , and at the end of the day , what im saying to pappy here is the tories are being castigated for doing the same things as labour does.

I agree the overburdened lords should be greatly reduced in numbers and made into an elected upper chamber which will stop this sort of thing happeneing under lab/tory.

We are constantly told by those who wish the status quo to remain that the lords is some expert chamber of technocrats , but as we all know its simply a chamber of rich party donors to both labour and conservative.

The latest "jump on the outrage bus" story  isnt designed for the common good. Its merely a weapon to attempt to damage the party you hate more , as pappy is doing here with the tories.

Pappy , and ohters like him , dont realise they are merely cogs in the wheels of an unreformable uk that continues in its downard slide of sleaze corruption  and obscurity.

I think on this forum the last two members i heard with anything positive to say about the lords in terms of reform where both srb steve and beelzebub , apart from that ,its mere tory bad , labour bad stories intent on political party damage rather than ideas for the common good.

[Borchester]

i know borkie , there speaks the voice of reason.

Arguing with pappy though  can be fun at times.

I think a lot of pappies problems isnt just his brain is pickled with spite , but the fact he can't come to terms with the political world in 2021 , and instead thinks it 1961.

As im sure you are aware, labour hate the SNP with a passion . The starting point is the fact they hate the snp taking what they see as their fiefdom.

Nicola sturgeon goes out at every turn encouraging the latest labour leader to go into coalition with the snp knowing full well the political damage this would do to labour in England. Its even more worse for someone as tactically inept as keir starmer  , never mind some of the more politically clued up labour leaders of the past.

Another point Tommy, is that today's Labour party doesn't have much left except hate.

[Thomas]

This is true. The point about these left wing coalitions is that they invariably fall apart because lefties hate each other more than they do the supposed opposition. Still, no point in arguing with Pappy. He has spent the last two years hiding under the bed and the fumes from the chamber pots have pickled his brain.

i know borkie , there speaks the voice of reason.

Arguing with pappy though  can be fun at times.

I think a lot of pappies problems isnt just his brain is pickled with spite , but the fact he cant come to terms with the political world in 2021 , and instead thinks it 1961.

As im sure you are aware, labour hate the SNP with a passion . The starting point is the fact they hate the snp taking what they see as their fiefdom.

Nicola sturgeon goes out at every turn encouraging the latest labour leader to go into coalition with the snp knowing full well the political damage this would do to labour in England. Its even more worse for someone as tactically inept as keir starmer  , never mind some of the more politically clued up labour leaders of the past.

[Borchester]

Back to reality , and away from smurf la la land , this left wing coaltion fantasy in England to oust the conservatives is exactly that , nothing more than desperate straw clutching.

Since 2011 , both the then snp leader alec salmond , and nicola sturgeon , have both offered to look at going into coalition with labour and every single time , the tories have made mincemeat out of labour and milliband , corbyn and now starmer have all been forced to come out and refuse to countenance any form of colation with the snp as they knew how electorally damaging with would be to labour in England.

Keir Starmer rules out any deal with SNP 'before or after' general election

'There'll be no coalition going into those elections,' says Labour leader

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-snp-deal-election-b1896503.html

This is true. The point about these left wing coalitions is that they invariably fall apart because lefties hate each other more than they do the supposed opposition. Still, no point in arguing with Pappy. He has spent the last two years hiding under the bed and the fumes from the chamber pots have pickled his brain.

[Thomas]

Back to reality , and away from smurf la la land , this left wing coaltion fantasy in England to oust the conservatives is exactly that , nothing more than desperate straw clutching.

Since 2011 , both the then snp leader alec salmond , and nicola sturgeon , have both offered to look at going into coalition with labour and every single time , the tories have made mincemeat out of labour and milliband , corbyn and now starmer have all been forced to come out and refuse to countenance any form of colation with the snp as they knew how electorally damaging with would be to labour in England.

Keir Starmer rules out any deal with SNP 'before or after' general election

'There'll be no coalition going into those elections,' says Labour leader

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/starmer-labour-snp-deal-election-b1896503.html

[Thomas]

In your opinion.  Out in the real world your constantly calling me a liar would have legal consequences for you and I have never lost a case against people calling me a liar. Several charities are very glad of the compensation I won, out of court given them as donations.

ahhh back to making more empty threats about "legal action" against someone telling the truth about you.

Remember you got banned for threatening forum member "major sinic " with legal action for disagreeing with you? You never learn you deluded old clown.

You are a liar , and i , and most of the old timers on this forum over the years have constantly proved you are a liar.

[papasmurf]

You are a well know liar , and unwell fantasist who is regualrly caught out telling porkies on this forum.

In your opinion.  Out in the real world your constantly calling me a liar would have legal consequences for you and I have never lost a case against people calling me a liar. Several charities are very glad of the compensation I won, out of court given them as donations.

[Thomas]

I don't promise anything, your perception as per usual is flawed.

You are a well known liar , and unwell fantasist who is regularly caught out telling porkies on this forum.

John of gwent caught you out lieing about hiding under your bed over covid , cromwell asked you regularly for links to your fantasy claims and you fail to produce , nick caught you out lieing about supermaket shelves being empty in cornwall , i could go on  but we all get the gist , you cannot be trusted to tell anything resembling the truth.

[papasmurf]

You keep promising us all these wee things pappy , but fail to deliver every time.

Your tory hatred blinds you to all else.

I don't promise anything, your perception as per usual is flawed.

[Thomas]

I suggest you stop doing it then. You have never contributed anything  to this forum except very nasty personal insults.

Where have i lied?

You made a claim only yesterday and today on two different threads on two different issues , and when pressed to prove it by offering a link , ran away as ever.

You the guy who has been banned for making empty threats about shooting tory mps and prime mininsters among other unsavoury comments calling others nasty is laughable.

[Thomas]

So what it is a personal  opinion based on data and research. (98 pages of it, not including the many references and data links.)

I think it is called clutching at anti tory straws pappy.

Either way , im easy.

Sturgeon is far too shrewd an operator for the helpless and blundering starmer to use her to get into power , its a win win for the snp and independence , and a lose lose for labour.

Only someone so out of touch and utterly deluded as you would think the english electorate would tolerate some labour coalition with the SNP pulling thier strings and ruling over england.

As i said , bring it on. You keep promising us all these wee things pappy , but fail to deliver every time.

Your tory hatred blinds you to all else.

[papasmurf]

As well as constantly telling lies, over exaggerating , trolling threads and disrupting debate while making mountians out of molehills.

I suggest you stop doing it then. You have never contributed anything  to this forum except very nasty personal insults.

[papasmurf]

Bookmarked for future reference.

So what it is a personal  opinion based on data and research. (98 pages of it, not including the many references and data links.)