Spread of Covid, will vaccines stop it, will you get vaccines forever?

[papasmurf]

Are you really asking that?  Not heard of vitamins, Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, zinc?

I have, but where is your researched evidence they will do any good if you are not vaccinated as well?
Just what is your objection to vaccinations? 

[Scott777]

Really?

Are you really asking that?  Not heard of vitamins, Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine, zinc?

[papasmurf]

, I am merely saying there are other treatments,

Really? 

[Scott777]

Ebola isn't eradicated yet either do you propose that everyone should remain untreated for that too?

You don't treat people for Ebola unless you have good reason to think they have it.  That should be the same for Covid.  So, yes, obviously most people should remain untreated for Ebola.  Have you been treated?

The covid vaccines are a pathway to more but according to you we should all happily succumb just to keep antivaxxers feeling righteous.

No, that's entirely false.  When did I say we should all succumb?  First of all, most people get mild to no illness from the virus.  You cannot succumb to something if you are not very ill.  That's just a silly argument.  And I shall repeat, YOU are welcome to get jabbed.

If you were sensitive to my situation perhaps you would not be so dismissive. I am one of the lucky ones, I know and understand my risks but I feel sorry for those persuaded by gungho advocates, who find themselves at death's door for listening to them.

Again, entirely misrepresenting what I said.  You are welcome to the jab, I am merely saying there are other treatments, and you will almost certainly get Covid, so what I do with my body is none of your business.

[T00ts]

I don't agree that anyone should need to prove anything.  If you believe someone has a deadly virus, you should have to prove it.  That's up to you, not me.  I don't go around asking for proof that people don't have Ebola.

What is laughable about everyone catching it?  If you don't bother to read the OP, why comment.  "In a press conference, WHO leaders say COVID-19 won't be eradicated despite mass vaccination and booster campaigns.", which makes perfect sense if it's very infectious and neither vaccines nor masks stop it.  Like others, you entirely neglect the treatments, such as Ivermectin, when you assume it will cause damage.  Of course, it's still your choice, but you will get it eventually, unless you isolate forever, and you will be on never ending vaccines.

I have already stated that meds are coming online and questioned how available they are as yet. Ebola isn't eradicated yet either do you propose that everyone should remain untreated for that too? They have only just found a vax for Malaria which will hopefully be long lasting. The covid vaccines are a pathway to more but according to you we should all happily succumb just to keep antivaxxers feeling righteous. I'm relieved that you are not a doctor. Yes you are right it is my choice and mine alone. If you were sensitive to my situation perhaps you would not be so dismissive. I am one of the lucky ones, I know and understand my risks but I feel sorry for those persuaded by gungho advocates, who find themselves at death's door for listening to them.

[papasmurf]

Why should everyone get vaccinated? If you can prove that you are immune then don't. It's the proof that's evasive. In an ideal world we should all have a test first.

I know what "test" I would give anti-vaxxers but I won't specify it here.

[Scott777]

Why should everyone get vaccinated? If you can prove that you are immune then don't. It's the proof that's evasive. In an ideal world we should all have a test first. The only test I am aware of is for TB where everyone is routinely tested before being given protection. I believe that's as much to counter the affects of the TB injection since I was carefully told that my daughter had been in contact at 3yrs and shouldn't be tested again in her teens.

For me the point of the jabs for Covid is to protect us albeit for not very long at present, from having a major health breakdown if we contract it.  At present we haven't developed a life term vaccine but I suspect they are working on that still. To be blase that everyone should catch it and gain immunity is so short sighted it is laughable. It is true that some seem to have sailed through whatever it is that they have had and they are lucky. Sadly there are many who are still struggling with the lung damage without even thinking of other organs.

I have damaged lungs, my Xrays look like I have had severe Covid already and I haven't had it. How many of us know for sure that our hearts, lungs etc would withstand a nasty Covid infection? Some of us know already that to take the course that antivaxxers recommend so merrily would kill us. That isn't might, it's a definite. So from where I stand if having the vaccine reduces everyone's severity of illness it has to be a good thing. I know I can still catch it. I have had all 3 jabs thus far. We have evidence here on the forum of at least two members who have suffered long Covid. Have they been offered Xrays or any investigative action? Probably not - NHS capacity is too under siege, but I feel confident that as time passes the damage done to organs in many people will need to be treated long term.

Just out of interest I can trace my lung problems back to Asian flu when I was a kid. Have I any real medical evidence to prove that - no. Will you, when you get older? No. My hope is that they find a vaccine that will give a long term protection but in the meantime the more of us who can and will seek some sort of protection is the best we can do. There are enough people already who have died regretting not protecting themselves. They are slowly bringing out medication. I don't know how effective that is proving to be or how available. In the meantime vaccine is all we have. Those of you glibly advocating take the risk are unfair. You can only speak for yourself not for me.

I don't agree that anyone should need to prove anything.  If you believe someone has a deadly virus, you should have to prove it.  That's up to you, not me.  I don't go around asking for proof that people don't have Ebola.

What is laughable about everyone catching it?  If you don't bother to read the OP, why comment.  "In a press conference, WHO leaders say COVID-19 won't be eradicated despite mass vaccination and booster campaigns.", which makes perfect sense if it's very infectious and neither vaccines nor masks stop it.  Like others, you entirely neglect the treatments, such as Ivermectin, when you assume it will cause damage.  Of course, it's still your choice, but you will get it eventually, unless you isolate forever, and you will be on never ending vaccines.

[Scott777]

Every two months?  You have misread that.

Although JOG can be a bit confusing, he appeared to be saying Covid vaccine immunity lasts 60 days.

[T00ts]

Why should everyone get vaccinated? If you can prove that you are immune then don't. It's the proof that's evasive. In an ideal world we should all have a test first. The only test I am aware of is for TB where everyone is routinely tested before being given protection. I believe that's as much to counter the affects of the TB injection since I was carefully told that my daughter had been in contact at 3yrs and shouldn't be tested again in her teens. 

For me the point of the jabs for Covid is to protect us albeit for not very long at present, from having a major health breakdown if we contract it.  At present we haven't developed a life term vaccine but I suspect they are working on that still. To be blase that everyone should catch it and gain immunity is so short sighted it is laughable. It is true that some seem to have sailed through whatever it is that they have had and they are lucky. Sadly there are many who are still struggling with the lung damage without even thinking of other organs. 

I have damaged lungs, my Xrays look like I have had severe Covid already and I haven't had it. How many of us know for sure that our hearts, lungs etc would withstand a nasty Covid infection? Some of us know already that to take the course that antivaxxers recommend so merrily would kill us. That isn't might, it's a definite. So from where I stand if having the vaccine reduces everyone's severity of illness it has to be a good thing. I know I can still catch it. I have had all 3 jabs thus far. We have evidence here on the forum of at least two members who have suffered long Covid. Have they been offered Xrays or any investigative action? Probably not - NHS capacity is too under siege, but I feel confident that as time passes the damage done to organs in many people will need to be treated long term. 

Just out of interest I can trace my lung problems back to Asian flu when I was a kid. Have I any real medical evidence to prove that - no. Will you, when you get older? No. My hope is that they find a vaccine that will give a long term protection but in the meantime the more of us who can and will seek some sort of protection is the best we can do. There are enough people already who have died regretting not protecting themselves. They are slowly bringing out medication. I don't know how effective that is proving to be or how available. In the meantime vaccine is all we have. Those of you glibly advocating take the risk are unfair. You can only speak for yourself not for me.

[papasmurf]

So when you talk about the virus buggering up organs, there should be no reason for it, and even less justification for the vaccine in general, which as you say, would be needed every 2 months.

Every two months?  You have misread that.

[Scott777]

No, that does not work, and I think you must have seen my, and several other, references to journal articles explaining why.

Few people seem to have bothered pushing tests for immune response, and certainly it isn't remotely as well publicised as PCR and Lateral Flow tests, but as I said at the start of this pox debacle, original tests for efficacy were ended in a much shorter time scale than my virologist pal expected, and results published in virology and biochemical journals he gets as a member of the royal society pointed to a falloff of immunity in 60-90 days, in common with many other diseases there is a comparatively short period when viewed against say tetanus's 10 years plus protection and for COVID this seems nearer 60 days.

The point of the jab is it buggers the secondary ability of the bug to pretend to be angiotensin II or is it angiotensin inhibitor I can't remember which now and THAT is a SYMPTOM of the DAMAGE this pox causes.... The vaccination which came a month too late for me stops this pox f**king with your major organs and killing you off.

I'm sure some people don't see it that way. That's their perogative and as long as they aren't female drop dead gorgeous and dying for a screw I say let nature take its course and remove them from the population as I can waste no more time in educating them

That's fine for you, Mr Gwent, but most people are not you, and I'm talking about the majority.  "Why should everyone get vaccinated?"  Also, there have always been treatments, such as Ivermectin, which apparently was banned, for no reason other than because it doesn't make money for big pharma, while vaccines do.  So when you talk about the virus buggering up organs, there should be no reason for it, and even less justification for the vaccine in general, which as you say, would be needed every 2 months.

[Streetwalker]

I'm only going to bother looking at your first link, which is garbage, and a waste of my time.  First of all, it provides no link to the science.  Where are your study details?  Where is the paper?  Then when I read things like vaccination "reduces chances of spreading virus to others", I know it's not worth its salt.  It's a claim that requires qualification, otherwise, as I say, it's garbage.  How much does it reduce it?  The answer, as the Lancet shows in the study, is that the reduction is insignificant.  So I have denied no facts, because you have not provided anything beyond unqualified, spurious claims, with no evidence to back it up.

Just trying to help you understand scott .

The 2nd link by the way is an easy read version of the lancet report which you seem to take as gospel (fair enough ) . It states  ''Vaccines are critical in controlling the pandemic ,as we know they are fantastic at preventing serious illness and death from covid 19 '' or maybe  '' the ongoing transmission we are seeing makes it essential for unvaccinated people to get vaccinated  to protect themselves from sever disease  ''  Thats from the guy who led the research you have posted .

Just get the jab and stop being a wuss

[Scott777]

Indeed they do

COVID-19 immunity: Natural infection compared to vaccination | British Society for Immunology

COVID vaccines effective but household transmission of delta a risk for 1 in 4 | Imperial News | Imperial College London

I'm only going to bother looking at your first link, which is garbage, and a waste of my time.  First of all, it provides no link to the science.  Where are your study details?  Where is the paper?  Then when I read things like vaccination "reduces chances of spreading virus to others", I know it's not worth its salt.  It's a claim that requires qualification, otherwise, as I say, it's garbage.  How much does it reduce it?  The answer, as the Lancet shows in the study, is that the reduction is insignificant.  So I have denied no facts, because you have not provided anything beyond unqualified, spurious claims, with no evidence to back it up.

[johnofgwent]

Thrice a year.  Not a problem for me, it's your choice.  Or just get Covid once, have natural immunity.
The dangers - exactly as you said, so far.

No, that does not work, and I think you must have seen my, and several other, references to journal articles explaining why.

Few people seem to have bothered pushing tests for immune response, and certainly it isn't remotely as well publicised as PCR and Lateral Flow tests, but as I said at the start of this pox debacle, original tests for efficacy were ended in a much shorter time scale than my virologist pal expected, and results published in virology and biochemical journals he gets as a member of the royal society pointed to a falloff of immunity in 60-90 days, in common with many other diseases there is a comparatively short period when viewed against say tetanus's 10 years plus protection and for COVID this seems nearer 60 days. 

The point of the jab is it buggers the secondary ability of the bug to pretend to be angiotensin II or is it angiotensin inhibitor I can't remember which now and THAT is a SYMPTOM of the DAMAGE this pox causes.... The vaccination which came a month too late for me stops this pox fucking with your major organs and killing you off. 

I'm sure some people don't see it that way. That's their perogative and as long as they aren't female drop dead gorgeous and dying for a screw I say let nature take its course and remove them from the population as I can waste no more time in educating them 

[Streetwalker]

Some people continue to deny the facts about spreading Covid,

Indeed they do 

COVID-19 immunity: Natural infection compared to vaccination | British Society for Immunology

COVID vaccines effective but household transmission of delta a risk for 1 in 4 | Imperial News | Imperial College London