Despite tory sleaze , an awful lot of people not convinced on starmers labour

[srb7677]

I dare say Sunak is plotting. That is what politicians do. And maybe the Tory MPs are stupid enough to elect him party leader. But he has all the charisma of a brick, so I can't see him leading the conservative party to another electoral victory.

Well to be honest even a brick has more charisma than Starmer.

Both parties at the moment seem to be competing with each other to see who can be the most shit.

[Borchester]

Well you could be right or you could be wrong. We will never know until it happens, or doesn't.

Personally I'd be surprised if they don't ditch him for someone more effective. Their lead right now is narrow to non-existent, and he appears to becoming part of the problem why. If Tory MPs start thinking that, they'll ditch him and put someone else in charge. I think Sunak is probably already plotting.

I dare say Sunak is plotting. That is what politicians do. And maybe the Tory MPs are stupid enough to elect him party leader. But he has all the charisma of a brick, so I can't see him leading the conservative party to another electoral victory.

[srb7677]

I don't understand this 'Boris will be gone'? He's still level with Labour even with all the crap floating around. That's how popular he is, he's not going anywhere I believe.

Well you could be right or you could be wrong. We will never know until it happens, or doesn't.

Personally I'd be surprised if they don't ditch him for someone more effective. Their lead right now is narrow to non-existent, and he appears to becoming part of the problem why. If Tory MPs start thinking that, they'll ditch him and put someone else in charge. I think Sunak is probably already plotting.

[papasmurf]

I don't understand this 'Boris will be gone'?

You should, his days are numbered, it won't be real daggers but "et tu Brute," seem to be ever more likely.

[Nick]

The polls right now, whatever they say, are largely irrelevent. The Tories are highly likely to have a different leader by then, and if that leader is wise, he will attempt to nuetralise what is most damaging the party right now by promising to end sleaze and corruption.  New leaders can change perceptions considerably sometimes.

Labour might have a different leader too of course, but this is less likely. The party leadership seems to be halluninating at the moment. As they hurtle along they imagine they see ahead of them the sunlit uplands of 1997, when in fact they are hurtling towards a brick wall known as the next election.

I don't understand this 'Boris will be gone'? He's still level with Labour even with all the crap floating around. That's how popular he is, he's not going anywhere I believe. 

[srb7677]

It's all immaterial atm, the Tories aren't going anywhere near a GE for the foreseeable, and Labour will have hung themselves out to dry a dozen times by then.

The polls right now, whatever they say, are largely irrelevent. The Tories are highly likely to have a different leader by then, and if that leader is wise, he will attempt to nuetralise what is most damaging the party right now by promising to end sleaze and corruption.  New leaders can change perceptions considerably sometimes. 

Labour might have a different leader too of course, but this is less likely. The party leadership seems to be halluninating at the moment. As they hurtle along they imagine they see ahead of them the sunlit uplands of 1997, when in fact they are hurtling towards a brick wall known as the next election.

[Nick]

thought i would bump this thread.

latest polls...




@BritainElects

·
4h

Britain Predicts — model update: Hung parliament CON: 295 MPs (-70) LAB:265 (+63) SNP: 55 (+7) LDEM: 11 (-)


Labour still can't get a majority.

It's all immaterial atm, the Tories aren't going anywhere near a GE for the foreseeable, and Labour will have hung themselves out to dry a dozen times by then. 

[srb7677]

Sir John Curtice: despite Tory sleaze Britain unconvinced Starmer has turned Labour around

POLLING guru Sir John Curtice dealt Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer a devastating blow as he said Britons are "not convinced" he has turned Labour around despite having ample opportunity to do so.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1524469/sir-john-curtice-keir-starmer-labour-party-polls-boris-johnson-conservative-yougov-vn

I know its in the express , but its been widely reported that much respected polling guru sir john curtice has said that large amounts of the public still not convinced by keir starmer and the labour party despite all the problems the conservatives have after 11 years in government.

We see and talk often about the problems with in the conseravtive party at uk government level , but i think this is a glimpse into the damning indictment of the publics view of labour.

Fact is that Labour's failure is utterly predictable and the fact that they are not doing even worse is solely due to the Tories putting up stiff competion in the who can be the most shit contest.

Fact is that despite all his faults, under Corbyn in 2017 the party adopted a social democratic policy platform whose individual policies were highly popular. I know it didn't really happen in Scotland, but south of the border millions of voters who'd given up on the party flocked back to it, and many others who'd never seen any point in voting voted Labour for the first time. Consequently, Labours voters were greater iin number in 2017 than at any time except 1945 and 1997. The party lost votes in 2019 but still polled more than it had in 2015, 2010, and 2005. The scale of it's defeat owed more to the voting system because it was far from the worse performance for the party in terms of votes won.

Of course, even in 2017 Labour didn't win. Partly it was seen as hopelessly divided. Corbyn himself was highly unpopular amongst many older voters. And Brexit was an albatross around it's neck, with Labour voters split. The more affluent middle class liberal types amongst them were solid remainers. But much of their former working class base were solid leavers. Whichever side of the fence Labour took it was bound to piss some of them off.

Essentially Starmer won the backing of a majority of the membership - though not me I am proud to say - by promising that he would retain most of the popular policies of 2017 whilst uniting the party and being more electable. In fact he has intensified the internal disunity whilst ditching the only things people liked about the party. Insofar as the wider electorate is concerned, by being less radical than the SNP he has pretty much kissed goodbye to even a slim hope of any Scottish resurgence for Labour. South of Scotland what Labour essentially needed to do was to look united and credible, and needed to retain all those extra millions of voters who backed the party in 2017 whilst winning back some of those who deserted. Instead, in an unsuccesful attempt to do the latter by being Blair revisited, he has driven away many of the millions he needed to retain.

He will not and cannot win back most of those who gave up on the party by being more like Blair. And he will never retain the extra voters Labour temporarily won in 2017 by rubbishing all the policies that won them.

I have reached the conclusion that not only is the party unfit for purpose, but it is actively seeking to drive out anyone with an ounce of idealism. It views people like me as a bigger danger than the Tories. The party has in fact become once more the other cheek of the same establishmentarian arse. It is not only not fit for purpose but the centrist MPs with a sranglehold on it are going to ensure it stays that way. 

True Labour people, most of whom are no longer in what laughingly still calls itself the Labour party, need to build something new outside, or lend our support to existing alternatives like the Greens. The Labour party has become an obstacle to reform and change. We need to destroy it and eventually replace it. I have reached the conclusion that I want it to lose and lose badly. The more badly it loses, the happier I shall be. It has to be destroyed to be replaced.

[T00ts]

thought i would bump this thread.

latest polls...




@BritainElects

·
4h

Britain Predicts — model update: Hung parliament CON: 295 MPs (-70) LAB:265 (+63) SNP: 55 (+7) LDEM: 11 (-)


Labour still can't get a majority.

I find it difficult to understand Starmer. With BJ getting into all sorts of hot water and the promise, or otherwise of a Labour 'surge' he suddenly comes up with the news that he is going to follow his mummy's advise. This on all fronts is really not a good look but he develops this revelation with the news that when he is PM he will ban private healthcare. 
At a time when the NHS is more than struggling on all fronts not least it's GPs threatening strike action, more and more people are turning to private care. After 2yrs of prevarication with the NHS my daughter got a diagnosis in a matter of weeks coupled with almost immediate scans as necessary.  I am beginning to think that Starmer's head is nothing but an echo chamber.

[Thomas]

thought i would bump this thread.

latest polls...




@BritainElects

·
4h

Britain Predicts — model update: Hung parliament CON: 295 MPs (-70) LAB:265 (+63) SNP: 55 (+7) LDEM: 11 (-)


Labour still cant get a majority.

[Thomas]

Not only is it the express, but it's an interview taken from Nazi oh sorry I meant GB News

But it's fun to read. I wonder if it's true though ? Who knows what people say to pollsters in exchange for money ?

You say that john , and i know your long term view of pollsters , but no matter what the platform , sir john curtice is deeply respected across the various nations of the uk and all parties and various political divides.

I believe it. Not only because it chimes with what i have been saying for a long long time now , but it shows the continued disintegration of the two party FPTP stitch up , and why the "holding your nose and voting for the least worst option " of a two horse race is no longer compatible with modern politics.

Johnson is quite clearly a clown. The people he has surrounded himself with likewise , a contemptable bunch of poorly skilled no hopers and yes men. He backed a winner with brexit , and apart from that , has been by and large extremely poor as a politician and prime minister.

What we are seeing now is the tory party faithfull giving him a bit of a slap mid term in the polls.

Years gone by , we would have seen a labour leader flying high in the polls , as tony blair said of corbyn , "any other labour leader would be twenty points ahead."!

That isnt the case with starmer , just as it wasnt with corbyn. The voting public are sick to death with both these lamentable parties.

Starmers problems have long been discussed. He needs to win in England , where 80 % of the westmisnter seats are , to gain office , but he is held back because of his anti democratic remain baggage from 2016 - 2019. Among much else.

His party no longer commands the voting fodder of scotland , where he could normally rely on a good 40 / 50 seats to bolster the cause in england. His lack of charisma , and general lack of appeal of muppets like racheal reeve and many others makes for grim reading for labour.

Johnsons betrayal and general bottling of the northern irish issue , along with recent sleaze and of course mass uncontrolled immigration should have him flat on his back , but doesnt.

So aye , i believe labour are at best neck and neck  , maybe a few points above or below the tories , but far from enough to gain an outright majority.

As sir john says , too many not convinced with starmer and a re hash of new labour. At the same time , too many not happy with johnsons govenment either. None of the above the ballot paper is saying to me.

So expect a gradual and continued disintegration of westmisnter politics , as the system throws up continual benchwarmers from safe seats , with little political skill , and even less class and intellect .

[Streetwalker]

LABOUR Council Leader Charged With Electoral Fraud – MP Charlotte Nichols 'Also Implicated' – VOTEWATCH (vote-watch.com)


This labour councillor hasn't even got ten mates to sign her nomination paper though plenty of help on expenses . 

Id rather have sleaze than corruption 

[johnofgwent]

Sir John Curtice: despite Tory sleaze Britain unconvinced Starmer has turned Labour around

POLLING guru Sir John Curtice dealt Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer a devastating blow as he said Britons are "not convinced" he has turned Labour around despite having ample opportunity to do so.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1524469/sir-john-curtice-keir-starmer-labour-party-polls-boris-johnson-conservative-yougov-vn

I know its in the express , but its been widely reported that much respected polling guru sir john curtice has said that large amounts of the public still not convinced by keir starmer and the labour party despite all the problems the conservatives have after 11 years in government.

We see and talk often about the problems with in the conseravtive party at uk government level , but i think this is a glimpse into the damning indictment of the publics view of labour.

Not only is it the express, but it's an interview taken from Nazi oh sorry I meant GB News

But it's fun to read. I wonder if it's true though ? Who knows what people say to pollsters in exchange for money ?

[Thomas]

Sir John Curtice: despite Tory sleaze Britain unconvinced Starmer has turned Labour around

POLLING guru Sir John Curtice dealt Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer a devastating blow as he said Britons are "not convinced" he has turned Labour around despite having ample opportunity to do so.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1524469/sir-john-curtice-keir-starmer-labour-party-polls-boris-johnson-conservative-yougov-vn

I know its in the express , but its been widely reported that much respected polling guru sir john curtice has said that large amounts of the public still not convinced by keir starmer and the labour party despite all the problems the conservatives have after 11 years in government.

We see and talk often about the problems with in the conseravtive party at uk government level , but i think this is a glimpse into the damning indictment of the publics view of labour.